Re: Off-Topic -- Gender Discrimination



David Klassen wrote:

On Jun 15, 5:22 am, "Symbol" <j...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"David Klassen" <klas...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:1181822811.398236.230100@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


On Jun 13, 9:44 pm, "Shawn Wilson" <ikonoql...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"David Klassen" <klas...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

Bait and switch in what sense? The graph right on the front page
is pretty clear. Granted, that's an overall median, but there it

is:

a gender gap---period.

Because it claims but does not suport that the 'gap' is a function of

gender


The *fact* is that it is a gap based on gender. It's right there in the
freaking graph!

There is no evidence the gap is "based on" gender. Correlation is not
causation.


I believe that's what I've been saying. There *is* a gap. The median
function removes the effects of outliers so that if any subgroup has
a different median than the whole, there needs to be some very real
statistical reason for it.

Who here has been telling you that there is no gap? We all recognize it. The dispute is over the reason for the gap. You keep playing word games with the word "discrimination" and then ending up pointing out that there really IS a gap -- yes, a gap that we all admitted to in the first place.


In exactly the same way that recorded variances between age grouped
cohorts does not mean that 20 year olds are discriminated against in
relation to 30 year olds. Its simply that there are real differences
between the cohorts (experience, qualifications etc)


Which are simple to test for, and where "experience" as a reason
makes sense. We can measure levels of experience differences
between them. Shawn claims by assertion the same for male v.
female differences. Considering that we all *know* the history
of deliberate pay bias by gender, it is *just* as reasonable to assert
that today's bias is an ingrained, perhaps less deliberate version,
of that; I'd argue that it is even more reasonable to begin with that
view than Shawn's. As such, I've asked him to cite studies that
support his claim. So far, all he does is assert.

Could it possibly -- just possibly -- be that the gender wage gap is due to several different things? Women choosing lower paying jobs, women choosing to take time off to raise small children, women being less aggressive about pursuing/demanding higher wages, and yeah, good old evilmen wringing their hands and cackling with glee as they cheat poor helpless little women out of their rightful pay?


This is not to say that Gender discrimination does not exist. Simply that
a flat difference in pay does not prove it does.


Right. Bias<>discrimination. But since we do know the system *was*
discriminatory in the past, I would argue that it is the onus of those
claiming it is gone to provide proof. Considering that the data still
show
these statistical gaps.

How do we know that the system was discriminatory in the past? I'm serious. What proof do we have?

I'm not arguing that it didn't. I'm asking -- what proof do we have that it did?

- Ron ^*^

.

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