Re: Drowning rules
- From: ringofw@xxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: 15 May 2006 06:18:10 -0700
tussock wrote:
ringofw@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:In the case of falling I'm trying to defend your point that you have to
tussock wrote:
ringofw@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Miracle wrote:People don't need branches. Real people have fallen from
don't you find the fact that you die after 12 sec of breathing waterIt is harder for the DM to pull gills out of thin air than branches.
a little bizarre?
disintegrating aeroplanes onto slightly soft ground and basically walked
away. It's incredibly rare, but it happens.
The only instances I recall are from parachute failure and involved
tree cover, but I'm no expert.
Mostly, yes. Once you start counting those who're badly injured you
even find the odd one hit something fairly hard from a dead fall.
You've normally got to rule out concrete or bare rock though, too
much of your insides come out as you said, and the skull is terribly
vulnerable, though I've read of one gentleman who survived (with pretty
much everything broken) after a 30m deadfall onto rocks.
http://ip.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/6/1/62-b
Notes a few cases, small people doing much better, dug earth being
the ideal "hard" surface.
Ditto, a few people get pulled out of water, cough a bit and carry
on as if nothing happened (salt water not so good, an alergic-type
reation ensues hours later). My father was pulled from the water as a
child after half a minute or so, he said it didn't hurt a bit until he
had to cough it up again, he recalls it was all wonderfully peaceful
walking along the bottom of the river.
Might I hazard a guess that he was holding his breath?
The body reflexivly seals the lungs off if any water gets in, or
even near ideally, until well after unconciousness or even death. Dad's
sure he coughed up water, it being a painful experience, but most of it
goes into your stomach. He was definately "breathing" though.
<snip: nonsense>(Anyone following this thread ought to read that "nonsense").
Your lack of imagination is staggering, Mark.
Completely agree with your other post on this thread, so it must be
your misunderstanding that is causing us to disagree here.
Pfft. You're putting foward situations as being fait accompli that
have several ways out. A barbarian shaped hole? Grab the sides. A heart
spike? Every spear attack aims for your heart, turn your body so as to
deflect it, or at least take it somewhere less essential.
A description of an "unsurvivable" fall is being dropped onto bare
rock from 100 feet or more. But at least one real person has survived
basically that.
Hell, there's people suvived being stabbed in the heart well enough
to walk themselves into hospital!
those who think the rules cover anything that can happen:Rather that when the rules do cover something one can rely on being
allowed to use those rules in that situation.
There is a rule that says you don't use dice to determine the results
of non-random actions like walking, breathing. Being beheaded by a
guillotine doesn't need the Coup De grace rules.
Bah. _My_ character moves himself at the last moment: that's what
HP are for. Unconcious? I guess you got lucky, but short of being a
tricked out walking god the fort save from a good coup is nearly
impossible to make anyway.
Want to guilotine a god? Beat him within an inch of his life, wear
him right down to his last gasp, *then* chop his damn head off.
e.g. in the recent Sneak Attack thread, that no character can turnIf the man makes his spot check, he was obviously looking. There is
their back on you, because the facing rules don't support it, so no
character can be in a state of being able to possibly hear but not
possibly see you:
a -5 penalty for being distracted you know.
Do you really think the DM is right in the following exchange?
I really think you're trying too hard to break a good rule and
justify to yourself that it's OK to ignore it whenever you feel like it.
go a long way to make a fall unsurvivable (though we disagree on "as
unsurvivable as breathing water).
As for the looking....
I think you've made the "Bugblatter Beast" mistake here of assumingDM: The medusa prisoner is in manacles has a sack on its head.
One may not make Spot checks through complete concealment, that's
what Listen is for.
that because it can't see you, you can't see it. The point is that a
human PC is watching a prisoner: the only reason I made the prisoner a
medusa is that as inaddition to inappropriate use of the facing
non-rules meaning that you might not see what you are watching, you
might also see what you have deliberately put behind you!
Mark: You are the DM...so i turn my back on the medusa to avoid its
gaze.
There's rules for when someone tries not to look too, if the medusa
actively tries to meet your gaze you might still be screwed.
Agian, those rules only make sense in combat; in the somewhat contrived
situation where everyone's movements are restricted, it just isn't
going to happen.
If Mark's
character /really/ doesn't want to see it, he should close his eyes,
everything else presents the remote chance of a stumbling glance gone wrong.
With a one minute warning an a medusa chained at the feet?
Just like sometimes a character beleives the obvious illusion,Please at leat give Mark a big circumstance bonus!
sometimes he also meets the gaze of the Medusa; noone's perfect.
those people presumably also think that no fall can certainly kill youThat is what the falling rules are for. Real people can't normally
as there are falling rules so they must cover any fall:
do that sort of thing (fair enough too, they only have 2 hit points 8]),
but real people can't normally kill hundread tonne flying tanks with a
sharp stick either.
You don't roll the dice if the results are obvious.
What the DM considers obvious and what the player may consider
obvious are not always the same, that's why we have rules. This game is
not "I shot you", "No you didn't".
Surviving a fall is possible (though any character who acts like they
know that the maximum damage the game can deal out to them can't kill
them, i.e. that they are sure to be lucky, is a bad roleplayer) and the
dice reflect that:
Bah. Any character who's blasé enough to step off cliffs on a
regular basis is quite capable of doing it in such a stunnningly
fantastic way as to survive it; like a Monk only with bruises. Consider
it a super-rapid downward climb.
the bit you snipped was just contriving a situation where the outcome
of a fall was as obvious as trying to breathe in air, or to breathe
underwater.
One may indeed, IRL, breath in water for a short while and not even
pass out, let alone die (and it can take minutes for the heart to give
out). The body's normally pretty kick ass about that whole living stuff,
even though it's occaisionally into a spot of "how did that kill him?"
Water in the lungs? Of course people survive it, that's how we know
about the danger of secondary drowning!
--
tussock
Aspie at work, sorry in advance.
.
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