Re: Dying Earth: the undertakers

In article <1146751566.641213.8210@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
madafro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx says...

Is the planetar aware of the demon problem?

Again, not sure yet. He might be, and be trying to tell himself that he
can handle it... he's Ruler of All, after all! Or he might be sleeping
somewhere below the earth, or in the sea, because I like the images of a
fallen/trapped Sun god and a slumbering chthonic god. (I also like the
word chthonic. Chthonic!)

Seems like the big question to answer is: Why did the planetar trap the
Solar?

So far, I have no really interesting answer. Why does ever Satan rebel?
Pride. Wanting to be lord of the world.

I suppose it isn't critical that the question is ever answered,
especially if the PCs aren't really intended to reach the point where
the issue is relevant. I just like to know why bad guys do what they
do, because then it helps me figure out their next move if something
starts messing with their plans, as well as give the PCs chinks in the
BBEG's armor to exploit if they're clever enough.

If I go with the planetar vs. solar idea, I'll try to go for a sort of
morality play mood, rather than convincing character portrayals. So the
planetar is evil because he represents Evil, pretty much.

In this instance, though, I'm mostly curious as to whether the
planatar-as-villain can be redeemed, and if so, might this be the key
to solving the big problems?

I've been thinking about that. It's tempting, to make the possible big
climactic fight of the game a duel of words...

They might be coming from some Outer Dark, or from the future where the
Sun is dead, trying to ensure their own existence (mind flayers!).

Ah, so "demons" is really a working title. :)

Yes. The "demons" would probably include equal shares of demons, devils,
creepy aberrations... anything that makes you go "this is just wrong" is
exactly right. :)

Undead might also be among them, or they might be just a side-effect,
with more and more people turned into ghouls as the sun darkens and food
grows scarce, the very shadows animating in a mockery of life &c.

I like the idea of
using aberrations or even Far Realm denizens of some kind in this role;

Aren't Far Realms denizens mostly aberrations, only really ugly
dangerous madness-inducing ones? But perhaps the very fact that I need
to ask this shows I must read up on the Far Realm.

It was done. The planetar exiled himself to Rex Mundi

Uh, Rex Mundi was just a throwaway possible title for the evil planetar
(King of the World, like the evil creator god in Gnostic traditions). :)
The world is supposed to be simply far future Earth.

My mistake. I like the name though; guess I just latched onto it.

Especially for a game like this, somewhat obscure but real names are the
best. It gives them that half-heard, half-remembered credibility.

I think I read somewhere that Wolfe didn't invent a single name in his
Book of the New Sun. But when Severian, who is to bring the New Sun, is
called Helios, Hyperion, Surya, Savitar, or when he talks about Urth,
Verthandi and Skuld, the three human worlds, of past, present and
future... it just sounds *right*. At least to a mythology geek. :)

Is there anything the PCs (or anyone) can do to restore the solar to
glory?

Well, I was working off the assuption that the PCs aren't supposed to
reach their destination with the sarcophagus; the campaign is really
about what happens during the journey, so I didn't do any thinking on
actually reversing the Sun's fade.

Ah.

Well, originally, I imagined the sarcophagus as truly unimportant (in a
grand scheme of things). It, and the inevitable, just serve as a framing
story, to give the PCs reason to places.

But once the solar/planetar thing occured to me, I really liked the way
it sounded, mostly because of the lovely way the D&D terminology fits
with the tentative mythology: the solar as a solar deity, the planetar
as an earth deity, solar deity vs. earth deity/earth serpent, Ra vs.
Apophis... and ending a campaign with the line that ends Book of the New
Sun and getting even a tenth of the reponse the book got from me would
be cool beyond belief.

But yes, the Solar in this scenario
is no longer celestial (although he was first among mortals for a
time), and does not maintain the Sun's light in this scenario even
while living as a mortal.

In my little novella, I was assuming the Sun's decay is pretty much
irreversible unless something really special takes place, although the
decay is occurring at a rate imperceptible to mortals on a day to day
basis; if a human lives to be 100, he might vaguely remember the Sun
being a little brighter and warmer when he was a boy, but he can't
really say for sure.

This all pretty much agrees with my ideas.

So, the Sun's fading is really just a backdrop
for the actual campaign; metaplot that doesn't come into play except to
add atmosphere and lend gravitas to tales told over the campfire.

In this way, I was attempting to tie the Sun fading to the theme of the
crumbled Empire and the Dying Earth you're presenting. I guess the
next big questions to answer are: is it important to you that this
process is reversed, and if so, is it important to you that the PCs are
responsible, or even involved?

Well, originally, it was supposed to be Dying Earth like in Vance:
people going about their business under a dying sun.

Now I'm tempted to model it more on Wolfe: people doing they're not sure
what, ending up bringing the New Sun.

If someone does bring the New Sun in the game, I'd want it to be the
PCs, of course.

Going back to the bit upthread about the PCs accidentally
starting/babysitting a foundling religion; that might be the key to
restoring the Solar to glory. It's actually the faith generated by the
pilgrims that eventually gives the Solar his devine energy back, it's
not the resurrection chamber at all. In this way, the journey across
the world actually becomes the critical component in attracting
followers and reviving the Overseer; the destination itself is
superfluous. Once they reach it, they might have thousands, or even
millions of pilgrims in tow, and it is their absolute belief that
actually does the resurrecting.

I like this very much.

Perhaps the PCs' Overseer isn't even the solar. Perhaps it's just the
PCs good deeds, their followers, their mixed hope and despair, that
finally bring the New Sun. The PCs discover hints that point to the
Overseer being the solar, the sarcophagus starts manifesting magical
powers, they turn from semi-random wandering to fighting the good fight,
and on the verge of doing whatever seems like it needs to be done to
bring the solar back, they discover incontrovertible evidence that the
Overseer is just some ancient Imperial official. But something (what?)
gives them enough hope/courage/desperation to finish what they're
doing... and it works anyway.



Two other ideas that occured to me, if I dispense with having a low/mid-
level finale: true resurrection and gate. Once the PCs are that powerful
(that's more powerful than a planetar!), they can bring the solar back
to life through sheer magic might, or bring a new one from wherever they
come from. The drawback is that it puts even more emphasis on raw power
instead of bravery, self-sacrifice, mercy, justice and all those other,
more ephemeral, heroic qualities.


--
Jasin Zujovic
.