Re: Iraq update


"John Phillips" <jsphillips1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:VCrjf.200002$zb5.102563@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

>>> Same language, same culture, and the borders were drawn up after WWII in
>>> Geneva.
>>> Less foreign aggression and more an 500+ year old civil war.
>> Different borders, different governments, different armies, different
>> friends- different countries.
>>
>> Or are you arguing that Germany and Austria are the same country?
>
> Have Germany and Austria been involved in an on and off again civil war
> for the past 500+ years?


Does that make North And South Vietnam the same country?

I could truthfully answer either yes or no to your question about Austria
and Germany.



>>> That crime happens? Yes Shawn its true, rapes and murders happen in
>>> real life all the time.
>> Did they happen in the Superdome?
>
> Did anything happen at the Superdome?


Apparently not rapes and murders.




> Were you there?


Nope, I had to rely on the reports of people who were there. No we are
discussing the lies those people told and whether they should be free to lie
at will.




> How do you know that the Superdome wasn't some malicious fabrication by an
> evil press out to destroy freedom and democracy?


How do YOU?




> The original question was it believable when first reported. I said yes
> because crime happens quite often in real life. You said no, as you don't
> seem to believe in crime.


Would you have believed those stories if it had been middle class whites
from Utah or Connecticut in the Superdome, instead of poor blacks for the
South?

Why did you believe that randomly selected poor blacks would turn into
barbarians in the first place? Is it because you think blacks are less
civilized than whites?




>>> You have proof they made it up rather than just being mistaken or
>>> getting faulty information?
>> Let's see... supposedly they were within 200 yards of people who had
>> been raped or murdered, yet they didn't seek out the bodies, victims,
>> their friends, their families, any witnesses, or indeed any evidence
>> whatsoever to confirm those stories.
>
> Ah, so are you saying they just didn't check their information properly?


Gross negligence and callous disregard for the truth add up to lying.




> So is taking people at their word and reputing what they have been told,
> no matter how dubious the source a lie, or is it just a sign of
> incompetence?


Since you are defending the press here, are YOU incompetent?




> > That shows callous disregard the the truth content of those stories, and
>> from an organization that purports to report the news and
>
> Ah, so not fully examining the information before reporting it to the
> public, when said information brings an advantage to you (in the case of
> the press, sensational story=higher ratings) is showing a callous
> disregard for the truth?


Fully examining? They didn't examine the stories AT ALL. They were within
200 yeards of the events and the people supposedly involved, but they didn't
seek out one victim, witness, friend or family member to confirm them.



>>demands special privileges based on that, that makes it a lie.
>
> Special privileges?


Yep.



>>>> Why were you ready to believe poor blacks would turn into uncivilized
>>>> barbarians in the Superdome? Would you have believed the stries if it
>>>> had been Connecticut or Utah?
>>>
>>> I did not believe that "poor blacks" turned into "uncivilized
>>> barbarians" in the Superdome. I was willing to believe that among the
>>> thousands of people there, some of them may have been criminals.
>>> (What?! Crime happen in New Orleans!! Say it isn't so!!!)
>>
>> It WASN'T so, and that is precisely what is at issue...
>
> Yet, at the time, was crime happening in New Orleans believable? I mean,
> if someone brings you information that is believable and you act on it as
> if it was true, even if it later proves to be incorrect, are you
> dishonest or just mistaken?



When it is your JOB to actually investigate and check facts, you are
dishonest when you report lies.



>> Don't the people have a right to a TRUTHFUL press?
>
> You still haven't answered the question, is mistake the same as a lie?


Mistake? What mistake did the press make? They made an intentional choice
to air those reports knowing full well there was no actual evidence
supporting them and made no attempt to find any. That's not a mistake,
that's a policy decision.




> So you admit that President Bush lies, and that it is his job to lie?


It's not an admission, it is a statement of fact.





.

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