Re: Bard's Fascination ability: broken?


"Waldo" <peggoliathy@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1129451964.568773.95560@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Martin Feller wrote:
>
>> From the PHB, "Any obvious threat, such as someone drawing a
>> weapon,
>> casting a spell, or aiming a ranged weapon at the target,
>> automatically breaks the effect. Fascinate is an enchantment
>> (compulsion), mind-affecting ability."
>
> Yes, I know. I've been over the (3.5) PHB description repeatedly.
>
>
>> Even if Fascinate worked against hostile combatants who aren't in
>> melee in combat situations (it doesn't),
>
> Why doesn't it?

They're hostile. They see their enemies as a danger. If they don't
most if not all of your PCs should get a surprise round...

> Really, why? This was my initial reaction. But the PHB just says
> that
> it doesn't work in melee, or near melee, or near "other dangers".

I don't see a mention of melee anywhere in the description. All melees
are combats. Not all combats are melees.

Merely pointing a bow at someone is enough to break the effect
automatically. Just seeing a potential threat gives them another save.

If your BBEG in the example didn't see them as a danger, he shouldn't
have enough WIS to cast that Flame Strike. "That'll roast their
gooses... say, is that 'Classical Gas'? I LOVE that song!"

> The players have argued that if they're not obviously threatening a
> monster or NPC, then they're not a "danger". After all, a troll
> coming
> at you with intent to kill and eat you doesn't see you as a danger;
> it
> sees you as lunch.

It probably sees you as both. Trolls may be stupid, but they're not
senseless.

> I suppose I could be a *** and say, no, as soon as the bard is
> in
> any sort of danger the ability fails. However, this would nerf it
> into
> complete uselessness, and would also IMO be a stupid reading of the
> rule.

???

You were asking for a way to reel it in. Did you really just want an
excuse to call people stupid for helping you?

Not every ability can be judged solely on its utility in combat
situations. The Bardic Knowledge ability would be completely nerfed by
that reasoning, as would several features of other classes. It's not
as if the bard doesn't pick up two other useful songs at the same
level he gets Fascinate.

>> Suggestion is a seperate ability. Each use uses up one bard song
>> for
>> the day.
>
> Alas, no, it doesn't. "Making a suggestion doesn't count against a
> bard's daily limit on bardic music performances."

My bad. Missed that part. At least you didn't call me stupid for
mispelling separate.

> I've been reading the damn RAW line by line. It's not clear.

It's clear unless you have some wacky definition of "danger" or
"potential threat." Seeing someone you want to kill and who wants to
kill you puts a big checkmark in the "danger" column.


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