Re: What does it mean

On 214khz erimess shrieked:
Ibn al-Hazardous wrote:
<snip>
I fail to see why skin colour matters. What does make diversity a
maintainance (sp?) nightmare IMHO is language, culture and religion.
Especially when they clash, and when the second generation fails to root
themselves.

I think the implication here is that if you're a basic "white looking"
sort of person, no one can tell by looking at you that you might be an
immigrant. i.e. someone Jewish isn't necessarily going to look like
anything special. (Not to mention that Jewish isn't one specific
race.) Since this country is made up of so many different other
countries, anything that fits within a certain realm will look
"normal" and not "foreign." So someone Jewish, or someone from the
Ukraine isn't going to "look" foreign, because they just look like
everyone else. Even to the extent that someone Italian or Spanish
might not look too terribly obvious. We have everything from redheads
like me to darker shades and dark hair, so that someone Spanish might
not even be noticed.

So it does make sense that someone could easily be an immigrant and no
one would notice because, by looks, they fit in.

However, the problem with this is that someone can look Japanese and
be as American as me, cause they're 3rd generation and don't even know
how to speak Japanese or anything about Japan. And yet *look* very
Japanese. Hell, I'm not even 3rd generation. On my dad's side, I'm
not even full 2nd generation.

So really, looks mean absolutely nothing. Now, hearing an accent is a
different story.

I also feel look has very little to do with anything. The usage of words
is yet another thing to keep people apart. In my work place, we had a
manager who was born here, but her way of speech exhibited lack of
comprehension of American culture and social convention (probably was
raised in minority neighborhood, or lack of contact with white people). My
coworker said she was a little "foreign". It sounds a little weird to me,
because I am the one with accent, but I understand what my coworker meant.

OTOH, sometimes some people are rather tactless and still ask people which
country they were from, even if they were born here (usually white people
will refrain from asking anything about race/ethnicity/religion or anything
sensitive). I think that says more than enough about this place.

That's obviously a west coast thing or something. The whole country
isn't like this. YET. If I hear an accent, I have no issues asking
where someone is from. (I won't asked based on their looks, due to
what I said above, because that's far beyond plain ignorance.) And
white people around here do NOT refrain from asking anything about
race/ethnicity/religion -- because not ALL of us consider that these
are sensitive issues.

Asking people about those question per se isn't a sensitive issue, but I
guess people here are so scared of being sued, there is probably a long
string of association that eventually make people here don't ask people
about the stuff I mentioned, on top of income, what they do for living, or
anything personal.

I constantly see from people's facial expression, they are probably dying
to know what's my ethnicity, but they don't ask, despite of their
curiosity. Usually it has to be a "tactless" minority person to initiate
such question and I could see how everyone suddenly spring into attention.
(And the conversation is usually like "I thought you were Japanese" then I
would say "I am not Japanese. Probably because of my sideburns....")

Then there is this "What are you?" question I heard from my now former
workplace. It really was a cultural shock to me (the first time I heard it
I was totally unprepared, and it took me several minutes to figure out what
they meant; and I had to figure out what I did that offended them). Nobody
has ever asked me, since high school through college, what nationality I
am, without any reservation and with that kind of language ("what are you"
can mean anything... and a little rude too...). Usually people will give
some precursor like "I noticed you have an accent" or "What language do you
speak" instead of asking someone the subject directly, because there is a
chance (especially here in California) the person was born here and still
have those foreign verbal cues. I have mistaken someone born here as
immigrants, and it is a little embarrassing.

Liberals are *making* these sensitive issues
for no damn good reason. What the hell is so sensitive about the
color of my skin, my hair, my toenails, or whether I have freckles, or
whether I happen to be mostly British, or whether I don't really have
a religion though grew up Protestant? These are just things that
exist. As far as I'm concerned, if you're sensitive about your skin
color or race or whatever, then you must be ashamed of it. If you're
confident of what you are, no reason to be so sensitive. (I know
this, because I used to be sensitive about my red hair. :-))

Sometimes what is worse are the people who try so hard to *prove* they
aren't racists. Quite honestly, I think that's almost more insulting.

I don't think it's whether one is Irish, Chinese, Iraqi or whatever,
because people usually don't mind answering them. I think it's harder to
ask the question since there is usually no proper scenario that one can
bring up such subject. People here usually believe there is no difference
between people of different skin colors, ethnicity or whatever, so there is
should be a moot point of asking. Besides, nobody would know the other
person's ethnicity anyways over the phone (if there is no accent). Just
like people don't go out and ask if someone is gay or not either, because
(this is California) it's socially unacceptable.

I find people who spend a tirade try to explain they aren't racists is
very... tiring. I usually have to spend an equal amount of time to
convince them they aren't racists, just because the person they dislike
happens to be a member of minority. If I don't like a person who happens
to be a woman, does that make me a male-chauvinist?

Then there are also people here who would consciously make some minority
friends just to show they are worldly and all-inclusive. Though I hate to
tell them I hope they like me as a person rather than my physical
attributes (but of course I can't say that out loud because it's an
anti-social behavior).

<snip>
It's rather sad. Less working hours would help. EA was sued by the
spouses of its employees because they claimed they don't get to see their
husbands/wives anymore.... When I heard it, I was laughing, since it's
rather common around here. They didn't know EA actually pay them well
enough that the family can support itself without both adults working....
But think about it, this is early 1900s's working condition.

Working hours? Around here - the stuff you speak of is illegal. 40 hours
a week is the law, and if someone works more - the boss has to pay more
per hour. So it is cheaper to hire another person, unless it is a
temporary thing.

That doesn't happen everywhere either. The west coast has rather its
own culture for one thing.
<snip>
And then there's EA, mandating people working 80
hours a week and I personally am NOT laughing over it and I don't care
how common it is out west. That doesn't make it right. And what
anyone did in the early 1900's is irrelevant.

I don't think bosses are smart enough to know what their labor practice is
really early 1900's, or they'd do something to change it. All they think
about is the bottom line (and their own jobs). Unfortunately, the people
who do care about human condition usually fired. Look, I am still here
without a job. Lots of people quit because we can't continue to see the
exploitation and let along take a part to exploit others, but my moron boss
thinks nothing about it (can I hate a female boss? I hope I don't sound
like a misogynist).

Some companies put people on salary for the purposes of avoiding the
overtime laws. Hourly workers must be paid overtime pay, but they can
not get other benefits, and some companies still try to make it
mandatory, though I don't think it's legal. (Legal sometimes has
nothing to do with it, if no one bothers to complain through official
legal channels.) And depending on how much overtime needs done, it
can still be more expensive to get more workers at regular pay...
depends on the combination of training costs, space to put more
workers in, more taxes to pay (the ones paid *on* the workers, not the
ones the workers pay), etc.

My experience tells me usually bosses don't think about things of that
complexity. If they do, my boss wouldn't fire people frivolously, as if it
doesn't cost anything to train people, and then cut down traing cost by
telling everyone to do on-the-job training (and therefore cut down us sales
coachs' influence). If bosses were that sensible, then how can they sleep
at night doing what they do?

<snip>
Yes, I know the term.

Curious if there's different meanings though. I don't have a clue why
that term should be condescending to someone Jewish. The actual term
ghetto is not directly related to anything to do with Jews. The only
relationship I can come up with is the Jewish ghettos of Europe during
the Holocaust. However, those aren't the only ghettos that exist,
most of those people have died by now or are very old (meaning the
majority of Jews were never in one of those ghettos), and there are no
ghettos around here with any Jews -- they're full of mostly blacks.
So I don't see a logical reason for the term to be condescending to
Jews.

But then, I've never seen a logical reason why half our language has
become offensive. Terms that are truly derogatory were *meant* to be
so.

Usually only in run-down neighborhood people (not exclusively black) call
each other "ghetto" so the word has become synonymous with anything shady.
Usually English teachers would tell people not to use the term because it's
like telling Jewish people they are shady, as if it's their choice to be
put into concentration camps. I don't really hear that word used
frequently until I landed on this job, which I had to explain to them not
to use the word. Using such crude slang is not a good reflection on the
person's education anyways.

--
Ashikaga a28
.

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