Re: What does it mean

On 96khz Ibn al-Hazardous shrieked:
skrev Saint George's Dragon:
Ibn al-Hazardous Dragon The Springy Robotic Tornado of Fair Play
wrote:
<snip>
I should probably let Ashikaga answer, but IIRC San Fransisco has
North America's largest China town. I would suspect in areas like that
English is a minority language and that there are probably more
Chinese speakers in California than in Sweden. Also, I would suspect
that there are various communities within most California cities where
English as a first language is in the minority (the Southeast Asian
refugees among others). In such areas I would expect to see few
English signs. As Ashikaga said the area around the southern border is
probably majority Spanish speaking. If any of the aboriginal peoples
of California still speak their pre-contact languages that would be
another source of linguistic diversity, although sadly probably a
minor one.

Anyway, IIRC America takes in a far greater per capita number of legal
immigrants than any European country, California is one of the biggest
job markets in the US and will therefore no doubt attract at least a
proportionate share of those immigrants. Therefore the number of legal
immigrants in California from all over the world is almost certainly
larger than the Swedish population of legal immigrants. While the
greater proportion of America's immigrants will come from Mexico and
Canada, I suspect more than enough of them are of a diverse
international nature to close the diversity gap.

I'm really interested in what numbers you have to back that up with.
According to official statistics we had 1,125,790 residents born outside
of Sweden last year - with a total population of 9,047,752 residents.
That makes immigrants 12.4% of the population. (Statistics to be found
at: http://www.scb.se/default____2154.asp in English. :) Now, if we
discount the neighbours who will probably not have big problems with the
language - Norway, Denmark and Finland (well - some Finns have problems
with Swedish, but I digress), I'll subtract 271,060 and get 854,730
immigrants who can't speak Swedish at all - that's 9.44%.

I would be a bit surprised to find that immigration of people who can't
even speak English, to the US or Canada, is as large as 9.44%.

I do not have the number to back my or St. Georgie's claim, but you'd be
surprised how many people here don't speak English. When I was just moved
here (1991), vast majority of people are white people. Nowadays, the
majority population in my area is Asian. My brother lived in S.
California, which is even worse. My brother can randomly pick an Asian
person on the street and you can be sure s/he can speak Chinese. That's
the reason why my brother's gf wants to go to east coast for school, since
she said she can't learn English here.

And the largest minority group in California is Hispanic..., which is
expected to surpass whites as the dominate ethnic group any time soon.

That said, I must admit that my picture of California has been a tad
coloured by the Hollywood image. I _am_ aware that it is old Spanish
territory though (watched Zorro as a kid!) - and I did know about the SF
Chinatown too.

I also watched Zorro as a kid, but this place doesn't look like a Spanish
colony now... :-/, though my town used to be the California's capital
during that period.

Though I have a feeling more people in Chinatown speaks English than here,
since people resides there are old immigrants (they moved here during late
1800s-early 1900s), and here the people are mostly new immigrants (they
were hired from foreign countries, such as Taiwan, China, India, S. Korea
during the dot.com era).

All that being said Sweden's five official languages policy is
impressive and quite progressive.

:)

Canada has perhaps the highest rate of legal immigration in the
Developped world at the moment. There is some tension about
immigration but IMO relatively minor compared to the worries in Europe
and the US. We only have two official languages English and French
(although Inuktitut is the official language of Nunavut Territory)
but certainly in places like Toronto many people speak English as a
second language if at all (about half of Toronto's residents are
immigrants). I always have hope that the Canadian experience shows
that immigrants need not assimilate to integrate into society and that
they almost invariable contribute greatly to their host country.

I am of that opinion too. I can't see how walling off a country, to make
the poorer be stuck "outside", is constructive in the medium/long run. I
think there is even in the short run a larger cost associated with
hunting illegal immigrants, than with sharing space and benefits with
people in need.

Canada does have a factor making it substantially easier to host
immigrants, compared to most other countries, and that is language.
Between English and French, people from the whole world has a really
good chance to making themselves understood. That is not so easy in
Sweden.

I shall refrain from that topic..., since I am not in a good position to
speak for either side. You guys would slowly begin to see why an immigrant
like me (though I've been lived here longer than my native country) would
against you guys' argument. It's not about cultural assimilation, but
about how people should at least try to adopt a little bit of stuff of the
land they now live on. When in Rome, do the Romans do. Though I must say
not everything Romans do is right and some discretion must be done, but
still..., I think some sort of cultural integration and interaction between
ethnic groups would be nice.

--
Ashikaga a28
.

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