Re: BAP


David Kane wrote:
> "Vince Hart" <VinnyJH@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:1135348659.175380.212360@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > David Kane wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > This is also opinion. The difference is
> > > that my opinions have at least a little
> > > evidence on their side. Do you not
> > > understand that NOT experimenting
> > > also has consequences?
> >
> > I have been less than impressed by your use of evidence. There is
> > evidence that chess has, at certain times and places, enjoyed
> > considerable success with a scoring system that awards a half-point
> for
> > draws.
>
> What is that evidence please? Are you really talking
> about the USSR??? Do you have evidence that
> even in that case incentivizing draws was integral
> to that "success"?

The USSR is not the only country in which chess is popular. In much of
Western Europe the game still attracts a considerable following.
Moreover, prior to the fall of the Soviet Union, the tournament circuit
in Western Europe was healthly enough to inspire a fair number of
players to seek their living as professional players. The problem
since then has been both a decline in sponsorship as well as the huge
influx of players from Eastern Europe.

I have not made any claim that incentivizing draws is integral to the
success of the game. However, I do not believe that the game ever
could have reached the popularity it did if the scoring system was the
"obvious flaw" that you claim it to be.

Moreover, you are the one who is claiming to have evidence on your
side. What is it?

>
>
> > Nevertheless, you assert that the current scoring system is an
> > "obvious flaw" and dismiss the arguments of anyone who sees any
> virtue
> > in it as some sort of Luddite.
>
> What were those virtues again?

I think that the virtue of the current system is that it rewards the
hard fought draw. It encourages the player who finds himself in an
inferior position to fight as hard as he can to find the best moves to
throw obstacles in his opponent's path rather than hoping that his
opponent will overlook some cheap shot. It recognizes that two players
may give a game everything they had before reaching a position in which
it is impossible for either one to win.

When it comes to GM level chess, I am not arguing either way that these
virtues are sufficient to offset the negative impact of fightless draws
(although I think it is certainly true at levels below master).
However, I do think that someone who understands these virtues is much
more likely to fashion an experiment that would be useful in
determining whether altering the scoring system to reduce fightless
draws at the GM level is likely to increase the popularity of the game
in any meaningful way.


>
> > I do not believe that such an attitude
> > is conducive to fashioning an experiment or to evaluating the
> results
> > of an experiment.
> >
>
> According to DePalma there is no need to experiment,
> because it is a fact that "chess is as interesting as it
> is going to be"

I don't know whether that is true or not.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: BAP
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    (rec.games.chess.politics)
  • Re: Does this so-called "draw problem" actually exist?
    ... Chess is not broken, and does not ... And you expect us all to accept without evidence your assumption ... players or more paying spectators, but I haven't seen any evidence ... Does reducing the number of draws help or hurt interest? ...
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  • Re: Problem with draws
    ... something inherent about the game. ... that your proposal to devalue draws would in effect change the game ... features --- the players keep playing until they get a decisive result. ... play each other frequently on the tournament circuit, ...
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  • Re: on unfought draws and Mr Tiongs article
    ... only changes the scores for draws compared to the traditional system. ... would have the same order of players. ... inherent flaw with tournaments with even number of players). ... play for draw, no incentive to play for the win. ...
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