Re: Two articles pondering the issues with Chess: Stale openings, declining prize pool, and issues with draws.

On Apr 8, 12:12 am, Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/> wrote:
(If you plan on using very long subject lines, you might want to consider using a newsreader that doesn't Word Wrap them...)

richardhut...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
Anyone care to argue that 60% of [games ending in] draws is good?

Sure! Other than your personal preference, what's wrong
with 60% of high level chess games ending in draws?

Is 60% draws more or less likely to grow chess? My interest is in the
growth of chess, as it is all abstract strategy games. When the
growth of chess is brought up, and discussed about appealing more to
people who don't play, an answer that comes roaring back is that the
masses are too stupid to understand the game. If they weren't so
stupid, then it would grow. In other words, growth issues (the ONLY
accurate measure for true numbers and growth is how many people join
chess associations), and that number has been declining.

Before you answer, consider two things:

[1] When people complain about draws, they usually mean too
many draws without a real fight. When I say that draws
are good, I am thinking of a well-fought game that ends
in a draw. Complain about premature/unfought draws and
you might get a different answer from me -- and a different
set of solutions.

If the rules allow for draws to occur and be unfought, then guess
what, you will have these if this game proves to be an advantage to
people playing.

[2] If you look at the various webpages you cite, you might
notice that many of them freely admit that thinking too many
draws to be a bad thing is a personal preference and move
on to possible solutions given that assumption. You seem to
think that we have to agree that too many draws are a bad
thing.

I can show you example after example, from Olympic events to
professional sports that there ends up being a need to not have things
end in draws. Even the case of soccer, for the World Cup, has a way
to not have the World Cup end in a tie. If every other sport has tie-
breakers, then what is your argument that chess does not? Oh, chess
is not a sport? Are you suggesting then that there no longer be a
world champion at chess, because shoot, it isn't a sport? It is a
form of human competition, complete with rules, and a winner and
loser. It isn't an athletic sport, but a MIND sport. And if you
object to this, just to justify your defense that draws are fine, then
you run against IMSA and FIDE itself, that are doing the World Mind
SPORTS Games in China. From a game perspective, it is a sport. And
if it is a sport, then look at the whole of sports and ask whether or
not they accept draws as a norm or not. If they don't, they should be
taken as a sign that draws are an issue. This goes from boxing,
onward.

Ok, let's say that you continue to argue that it still isn't a sport.
Well then, is not chess a competition, compared to even eating hotdogs
or whatever. Want to call it a game? Well, it is a game. Look at
all the competitions they have for games, and ask how many actually
accept things ending in a draw over 50% of a time. Any others besides
chess? And if you say, "Well that makes chess unique", then I would
put the charge to you to show how this being unique is helpful for the
growth of chess.

As the article pointed out 2% or less of Shogi on the highest
level ends in draws.

Your point being? When using correct basic strategy 8.9% of
blackjack hands end up in a tie. But Blackjack and Shogi
are not chess.

You actually lumped Shogi in with blackjack? If you were doing a
taxonomy of games, would Shogi be closer to chess or blackjack? Shogi
is derived from the same game chess was, so what is your point by
lumping it with blackjack? The reality is, someone could choose to
play Shogi if they want a game in the same family of chess.

- Rich
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Draws at Linares 2007
    ... chess has a low /participant ratio. ... the percentage of people with some interest in the game is ... giving my opponent doubled pawns or of attacking his castled king; ... Some "+0.5" positions are safe draws ...
    (rec.games.chess.misc)
  • Re: Draw appreciation at Corus 2008
    ... The recently concluded Corus 2008 is one of the chess world's premier events. ... If one assumes an equal number of votes ... as likely to receive votes as draws. ... fans were invited to vote on their favorite play of each game. ...
    (rec.games.chess.misc)
  • Re: Draws at Linares 2007
    ... Where does Dr. Walker describe such draws as "appealing"? ... Americans are no more capable of naming chess players beyond ... am constantly amazed at the interest in the game that I see ... combine them, just like humans. ...
    (rec.games.chess.misc)
  • Re: Draws at Linares 2007
    ... of the kind of chess people like. ... players is indeed seriously down from the "Fischer boom". ... Well fought draws are often as interesting as the brilliancy win. ... am constantly amazed at the interest in the game that I see ...
    (rec.games.chess.misc)
  • Re: the Mathematics of Chess
    ... because I'm a chess player. ... sport means there is no formula. ... with average i mean considering a large amount of positions and taking the average value that piece has in that game. ... but it hasn't made learning to play chess easy, ...
    (sci.math)