Re: What Does it Cost to hire a Professional
- From: Eric Leong <ewleongusa@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 20:28:43 -0700 (PDT)
On Apr 19, 8:02 pm, Stu G <st...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Apr 18, 5:45 am, Eric Leong <ewleong...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Apr 16, 8:18 pm, Hank Youngerman <dontspa...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Apr 16, 7:52 pm, smn <smnewber...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Apr 16, 8:38 am, Jim Reineck <jamesr...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
kingsman wrote:
Recently, Jimmy Cayne, playing with Michael Seamon and two Italian and
two Polish internationals, won the Yeh Brothers Cup in Australia. If
I were to assume that Mr. Cayne sponsored this team, does anyone have
a ballpark estimate of what this would cost ( in addition to
expenses) ? I am not interested, in this forum, of making any
particular point about Mr. Cayne, but only to find what is the going
rate for the very top flight professionals.
Similarly, what roughly is the cost of Meckwell and Zia-Hamman for a
full national tournament; or a top-flight pair like Hampson-Greco for
all the team games at a regional.
Again, I'm not looking for private information about specific players
or sponsors, but for a general sense of market rates.
Thanks,
Bernard Schneider
There was a program two years ago on the Canadian network CTV about
Gavin Wolpert and Vince Demuy trying to make it as pros. IIRC,
Rose Meltzer said she spent between $50K and $100K per ACBL NABC.
Jim Reineck- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Do you have any idea why a person -say Meltzer would spend $100K like
that.Is there any return on this investment aside from high priced
entertainment.Is there any financial return in nonspectator sports
like this.A tax deductable business expense? Thanks,smn- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
My understanding is that "run-of-the-mill" national class pros - that
is, a pair that wouldn't surprise you if they won a national event,
but you would not expect to win a Bemuda Bowl - go for about $1000 a
day for national events. That may be more of an "asking price" and
they may sometimes go for less. The comment earlier about "regional
events" refers, I assume, to a 6-day regional, not a single event in a
regional. $4K is probably low for Meckwell.
In 1999 I was told that a Vanderbilt team with 3 pros - one a multiple
Bermuda Bowl winner, one a BB winner, and one not quite of that
stature but close - had gotten $10K each for the Vanderbilt.
So the likelihood is that, except for the very top pros, it's not that
great a living compared with an office job. Assuming of course that
someone with that level of bridge talent could put their skills to
constructive use in business. But playing bridge sure beats working.
As for why someone would hire pros - hey c'mon. Why do people spend
$12,000 on a handbag or $300,000 on a car? It's all about your
personal financial situation and how you choose to spend your money.
I personally once had a partner who was a very very good player, who
would call me occasionally to play in tournaments. I offered to pay
him when we played, just to give him the incentive to call me rather
than someone else, because I hated having to call around for partners
and teammates. It was worth it to me to avoid the hassle. (He was a
good enough player that anyone in the area would play with him and an
empty chair - he never had to make more than two calls to get a team,
and usually just one.) And keep in mind that no matter how good you
are, if you want to compete at the top levels, if you don't pay,
someone else will. Ron Rubin and Barry Crane are good examples of
"clients" who paid their partners/teammates, but were often better
than the people they played with.
As I remind one of my partners constantly, they don't engrave your
bank balance OR your masterpoint total on your tombstone. But nobody
can take that Bermuda Bowl title away from Rose, can they?
A "pro" is anyone that is any bridge player who is willing to be paid
to play with someone else.
What you pay for and what you get is often a different question. There
are a number of "pros" out there where their promotional ability
vastly exceeds their bridge ability. Further, the quote you get is
will usually be for new clients. Older clients will usually paying a
little less. But all "pros" will constantly figure out how I can
charge more in the future to different existing clients without
rocking the boat.
In one sense what you pay a "pro" is more a work of art then a set
price. The pro will think along the lines of "X is a pro and he gets
around Y dollars. I am just as good a player if not far better so
therefore I should charge Z dollars more" But if he sets a price too
high he may not be able to fill up his schedule so with different
clients he may and probably will cut different deals.
Also, what you pay is often what the "pro" perceives what you will pay
and the other alternative "pros" you play with. So often a "pro"
especially a full time pro might have a variety of different
arrangements with different partners.
Another factor is your ability as a player. The better you are, all
else being equal, the more the "pro" will prefer to play with you. It
probably can be mind numbing if you only play with very weak clients
for long constant periods of the year.
Some years ago I was playing in a sectional event against Mike
Lawrence and weak client, who might have been having a particularly
bad day. After botching one hand and then the other, the client said
"It's just not my day; maybe I should just quit and go home." Mike
Lawrence said nothing but sat there with an expression between boredom
and disgust and quietly nodded his head up and down.
If you want to hire a "pro" you should ask say 10-20 other "pros" what
they charge and see how they compare. So now you get a sense of what
the market is like out there and you can make an intelligent choice.
Alternatively, you can just say to a "pro" who is calling trying to
book you months ahead for an upcoming tournament "I would love to play
with you but I can play with X a roughly equivalent player for less."
and leave it up to him.
Eric, I was looking forward to your reply to this thread but expected
concrete examples along with the general explanation you profferred.
-Stu Goodgold
San Jose, CA
I see no advantage at giving very specific examples and I can see
disadvantages.
Eric Leong
Eric Leong- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
.
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- From: kingsman
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- Re: What Does it Cost to hire a Professional
- From: Hank Youngerman
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