Re: Robertie - 501 Essential BG Problems - Problem #75 (errata)

Pete Lederer wrote:
> On 9 Nov 2005 08:32:06 -0800, "Raccoon" <racgammon@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> While winners are motivated to continue playing they usually only keep a base
> amount of money on the server. The money that they withdraw is usually lost for
> the server's owners.

Why? The server can't "lose" what doesn't belong to them. If the
winners keep playing (which they do) and keep winning (which they do if
they're really winners), the house keeps raking as long as the winners
are in action.

You played two, three years on TMG? Did you win? (If you won 55% of
your matches, you must have won). Did you ever make a withdrawal? Did
you keep playing after you withdrew? Did you lose all your money after
you withdrew?

Log into TMG -- same names there every day waiting at their $10 and $50
and $100 tables. Aren't at least some of them winning? Are they
withdrawing their winnings? Are they continuing to play?

> You tell of money being taken away by winners that will immediately replenished
> by new players or rebuys. Of course, that is not true.

You're misquoting me. I said "The amount available for extraction by
winners and the house is replenished by (1) rebuys by the existing pool
of losers and (2) deposits by new customers." This -- not must be, but
will be -- true, if the server is to continue to be profitable. It's
not guaranteed. The pool of losers _could_ dry up. They could move to
another server. Isn't that why GE puts so much effort into attracting
new players with bonuses, referals, freerolls, etc.?

> If the income of the losers was unlimited and their willingness to bring the money to a backgammon server you were right.

Losers don't need "unlimited" income to keep playing or need to be
willing to lose "unlimited" amounts. All they they need is a continuing
desire to spend whatever their entertainment budget allows for the
pleasure of losing at backgammon.

I think your original depiction of "sharks and fish" playing against
each other seriously skews the reality of online play in two ways.

(1) The pool of "fish" isn't static. Most "fish" aren't stupid enough
to keep playing and keep losing to the same "sharks" (but some are!)
You must have experienced players quitting you, right? Players you beat
so badly they would never play you again? And so you had to find new
opponents to work your 60% or 55% edge on. And your old opponent found
new opponents to lose to, or maybe to beat.

(2) The "fish" in the pool don't all just lose and lose and lose until
they're broke and then go away. Sure, some go broke. Some lose enough
to convince themselves they can't win, and quit. But a whole lot of
"fish" keep playing for whatever enjoyment or thrill or masochistic
craving they get out of it. I think you are seriously underestimating
how many such people there are, and how many of them play backgammon.

Ever play in Monte Carlo or another big backgammon tournament? How many
players in the open flight had positive expectation? How many thought
they did? How many didn't care?

> You really compare a small site like TMG who has about 1000 players
> simultaneously in peek times with Vegas? Not to forget that most of these
> players don't deposit much if at all. Lol, be more serious, please.

What does the number of players have to do with it? Nothing. The
comparison has to do with who is playing -- winners and losers -- their
motivation for playing, their frequency of play, their selection of
opponents and stake.

Who plays on Server X every day? Are they winning? Are they losing? Who
plays once in a while? How do they do? Who plays for a while, drops
some bucks, then moves on to another server in search of luckier dice?

.

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