Re: Obama admin is actively involved in this coverup

On May 12 2009 8:15 PM, ChrisRobin wrote:

On May 12 2009 1:51 PM, JerseyRudy wrote:

On May 12 2009 12:35 PM, ChrisRobin wrote:

On May 12 2009 12:09 PM, gtech1 wrote:

What you say might be correct. But it also might not be. How do you
KNOW? I'm sure I can spend 5 minutes and find a couple of links to
stories that say the enhanced techniques did lead to actionable
intelligence.

Well, burden of proof's on you now. Hint: Dick Cheney quotes don't count.

It seems likely that some useful information was obtained from the
"enhanced" interrogation techniques. Even Obama?s director of national
intelligence, Dennis C. Blair, wrote in a memorandum to his staff that
?high value information came from interrogations in which these methods
were used.?

What do you expect a national intelligence director to say ? our highly
controversial behavior over the last decade has been pointless and
completely ineffective?

This is from a recent article in the NY Times: "Many intelligence
officials, including some opposed to the brutal methods, confirm that the
program produced information of great value, including tips on early-stage
schemes to attack tall buildings on the West Coast and buildings in New
York?s financial district and Washington. Interrogation of one Qaeda
operative led to tips on finding others, until the leadership of the
organization was decimated. Removing from the scene such dedicated and
skilled plotters as Mr. Mohammed, or the Indonesian terrorist known as
Hambali, almost certainly prevented future attacks."

Speaking of consulting the ol' crystal ball!

(If you delve a little deeper into the majority of these purported
"schemes" you'll find that they're pretty much a bunch of over-hyped
bullshit).

You have delved deeper than the intelligence officials who have access to
all the information? That is mighty impressive of you!


The issue is not whether the "enhanced" interrogation tachniques produced
useful information. The key questions are 1) whether the same information
could have been obtained using traditional interrogation techniques; and
2) whether the information obtained justifies using techniques that
clearly violated US and International law.

These "enhanced techniques" are clearly illegal. No need to make it any
more complicated than that.

I'm sure from your perspective, there is no need to make it any more
complicated than that. From the perspective of government officials whose
job is to protect Americans from another terrorist attack, it is always
complicated.

If it was 9/10/01 and you had Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in custody, would you
think it was simple? From the perspective of the White House, FBI and CIA
in 2002 and 2003, every day was a potential 9/10/01 and every detainee was
a potential Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.


We will likely never know the answer to the first question (it requires a
crystal ball). As for the second question, it is one of the most
difficult issues anyone in government can possibly face (do you sacrifice
your oath of allegiance to the laws in order to possibly prevent terrorist
attacks that could kill thousands of innocent Americans?) and I don't
think it is fair for any of us to pretend that we know how we would act
under such circumstances.

These "24"-type situations where "enhanced methods" are needed to extract
crucial information to prevent an impending terrorist attack are merely
the wet dreams of armchair warriors and police-state apologists. Pure
fantasy.

That's easy to say in 2009. Nobody was saying that in 2002 and 2003.

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