Re: OT Health care


"BillB" <bogus@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:gqv2a8$phi$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


"Beldin the Sorcerer" <beldinyyz@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:HJCAl.910$Q52.112@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Yep, you're a complete shithead. She lives in the country.
She makes purchases.
She pays taxes..

Well, *** for brains, the cost to her is a function of her income and
her spending, assuming the care is available at all.

I guess you weren't aware of it (what a shocker!) but all of the GST/HST
is refunded to very low income individuals in Canada in quarterly cheques.
In any event, nobody can say with a straight face that someone on welfare
in Canada pays for their medical care. It's about as strained and
ridiculous as the rest of your "documented" assertions.
Shithead,
She said she'd need to pay for it in the United States.
This means she earns too much to qualify for medicaid, which means she's far
in excess of welfare status.

Christ, you're an imbecile.



Care is freely available here.
It isn't rationed. The choice is a willingness to pay for it.

LOL it is not "freely" available. It is rationed by ability to pay. Many
people have a "willingness" to pay, but lack the money to do so. That is
rationing my friend:
Nope.
They MUST treat you.
They can go after you for payment, and take your house.
They cannot let you die because you don't have cash on you.


"In economics, it is often common to use the word "rationing" to refer to
one of the roles that prices play in markets. Using prices to ration means
that those with the most money (or other assets) and who want a product
the most are first to receive it. Such rationing happens daily in a market
economy. Non-price rationing follows other principles of distribution."
When they get medical care to save their life, then work the rest of it to
pay for it, they still got it.


In the US, medical services are rationed by price. In Canada, medical
services are rationed my medical necessity.
Wrong, shithead.
But you like to lie, so why stop?


Maybe you should take an introductory economics course sometime. And don't
tell me you have, because you clearly did not know that price is a form of
rationing, which they teach in the first week.
Bill, clearly you're a retard. Price is only a form of rationing if you're
denied it if you have no money.
Care MUST be provided.
Payment is an issue AFTER the fact.
You fucking idiot.







*** for brains, they do.
They limit payments, they structure fees, they reduce incentive to
innovate.
It's a fact, it's documented, and only a shithead even QUESTIONS it.

It's "documented", is it? Rather than making empty (headed) assertions
that it's "documented", please *explain* how the government acting in the
*exact same capacity* as an insurance company for *medical services* will
limit R&D for *medical products.* You can't, because there is no direct
relation.
Shithead,
The government controls the market.
SETTING prices nationwide is far different than brokering prices with
institutions that can say NO if they wish.

You drunk, overtired, or REALLY fucked in the head tonight, Bill?

Government says "You must".
Insurance companies say "We'd like you to"




Anyone is free to start a private enterprise medical R&D company in
Canada, and in fact thousands exist. Please explain to me how the
government insuring me for a visit to my family doctor impacts R&D. Do
be specific.

They fix what the drugs that may be discovered can sell for.
They fix what procedures can can be billed at.
They fix what medical devices may be sold for.
They reduce the risk / reward ratio to the point where people choose not
to take that risk.
Which is WHY Canadian R&D plummetted under nationalized care.

Uhhhh....private insurance companies do all those things too.

SEE what a retard you are?

Seriously, are you ALWAYS this stupid?
Insurance companies negotiate prices with doctors, hospitals, drug
companies. etc.
They can ALL say "No, thanks, we'll charge this instead".
And the insurance company can refuse to allow their clients to access that.

Government pricing isn't voluntary.

You think just
because you have medical insurance in the US the insurance company will
pay any amount for any service?

You ever consider thinking at all?

You think my insurance company lets me go anywhere I want?
Of course not. But the PROVIDERS can charge whatever they feel they need to.

You are living in a dream world. In the Canadian
medical system the provincial governments function just like a big
insurance company. The only difference is everyone is covered regardless
of ability to pay or pre-existing conditions.
NO, shithead
The difference is, all the PROVIDERS have to comply with their PRICING
structure.
God DAMN but you're an ignorant ***.


Now try to read and *understand* this next part. How much per capita is
spent in the US on medical R&D? Pick any number for the sake of argument.
Now, keeping that number in mind, whatever it may be, what is it about the
various provincial *medical services* plans that prevents the government
from investing the exact same amount in R&D in Canada? I'll give you a
hint: nothing. If the government (i.e. the Canadian people through the
political process) wanted to invest DOUBLE per capita what the US does,
there is absolutely nothing stopping them.

You fucking *** for brains.
R&D is done by PRIVATE enterprise for the possibility of PROFIT.
It's GAMBLING.
The risk is the investment, the reward is the potential PROFIT should they
come up with a breakthrough.
The vast overwhelming amount of R&D finds NOTHING. The successes need to pay
for the failures, as well as keep the company afloat.

Governments don't generally invest in risk. This is why there is so little
government funded R&D.

There is nothing inherent in the Canadian
*medical services* system that would prevent Canadians from investing 10x
what the US does in R&D if we wanted to. It's a simple policy decision.
No, shithead. It's simply a funding issue. You can't possibly afford it
without raising the taxes needed dramatically. As a result, you don't fund
it, and medicine fails to improve, except on the backs of the US payers, who
DO fund it.


And this of course leaves aside the fact that anyone in Canada can start a
medical R&D company (as thousands have), invent something, acquire
worldwide patents, and market that product in Canada and around the world.

Christ alfucking mighty, you goddamned retard.
They are not legally barred from it, they are simply FINANCIALLY barred from
it because of pricing restrictions.

ven if you
*excluded* the Canadian market for a new invention completely, which is
absurd, it would have a minimal effect on the profit for a patent holder
of a true breakthrough.
You imbecile.
It isn't JUST canada. It's most of the western world.
The US outspends MOST of the world out there.
There's a reason there are someUS drugs simply not sold abroad. The
companies would be required to LOSE money selling them there based on their
socialized medicine's fee structure.

Goddamn, bill, grow up. You restrict the selling price, people stop spending
money on "New and improved".
It's a basic law of economics.



They pay for doctors, hospital facilities, nurses,
etc. Having the government step in as an insurer for medical
services has no impact on R&D. If the Canadian government wanted to
write a cheque for $100 billion to go toward R&D, it could. It's a
completely separate issue.

Please explain how the government acting as a large insurer for *medical
services* impacts R&D.

I have. Repeatedly.
Explain how someone claiming to be a lawyer is so fucking stupid as to
think people will invest a large amount of time and money without the
potential for a large profit.

No, you haven't.
Yes,I have. The fact that you're too stupid to understand basic concepts is
unfortunate.

You are making no sense whatsoever. All you've done is wave
your hands in the air, childishly called me names, and claim that it's
"documented". Sorry, a lawyer does not accept that as evidence.

No, shithead.
All I've done is point out that restricting potential profit reduces
incentive to take risk. Which anyone with even a double digit IQ knows
already.


We are not talking about drugs.

Yes, we are.
We are talking about drugs.

No we are not talking about drugs. We are talking about that woman's
experiences in Rudy's post. She didn't say anything about drugs. She
talked about *medical services* under Canada's *medical services* plans.
Drugs are not even covered under these plans. Try to focus.
Bill, you fucking retard.
We're talking about the differences between the US and Canada.
Further, we're discussing the issues with socialized medicine.
Canada regulates drug pricing. Doesn't matter that they don't pick up the
tab. Setting the price is drug regulation, you idiot.
Are you THIS ignorant of your OWN system?



You're a shithead.
Canada regulates all prices in regards to medicine.

No, it most certainly does not. Yet again, you have no clue what you are
talking about.
YES, shithead, it DOES.
They set the pricing on drugs.
I cited this extensively when I did this dance with Dutch.
You ARE this big a shithead.
Drug companies are DEEPLY restricted in their pricing.
Service providers all have to deal with the government, so it's the same
there.

In the US, not all doctors need to take medicare or medicaid. Indeed, many
don't.
Everyone gets care, of course. Not always from the doctor of choice, but
that's at least as true in Canada.






.

Loading