Re: OT: Hydrogen Ecomomy gettting a little closer to reality.

On Aug 3 2008 2:15 AM, johnny_t wrote:

ruylopez wrote:

Um. Have you read ANYTHING about fuel cells?

Actually, yea.

Read more. Read what is actually holding us up. Why everyone is
worried. It is not the hydrogen. That has never really been the
problem at all.


This article is about being able to store solar energy via a new
technology. It's important. Your rants are tangential and, frankly, not
that interesting. Your conclusion that compressed air is a more promising
medium just doesn't seem to make sense to me.

First off, yes, compressed air comes from the electrical grid. And the
electrical grid comes, primarily, from hydrocarbons. You cannot divorce
the two concepts, energy is energy and the vast majority of the energy we
produce and use comes from fossil fuels or natural gas. This stuff is
limited, this stuff is mostly controlled by foreign entities, and it
releases huge amounts of carbon into the atmosphere. Whether it's your
car or it's your microwave, it's still part of our "energy problem". And
it has only just begun.


I did read the article. TYVM. I however used that thing between my
ears. The current severe energy problem is with cars, and this won't
help us. The next energy problem is going to be agricultural, and this
won't help us. Lastly we will need to make electricity, and we know how
to do this and make all that we need, some clean, some not clean, but
all that we need and want, not for a little while, but hundreds of
years. But this will still not move our cars. That is the point. That
is the current and real crisis.


The crisis spreads fast, doesn't it? This year it turned into a global
food crisis when corn and rice and everything shot through the roof, as
agricultural products were used as industrial fuel and oil based
fertilizers shot up in price. Oil doesn't just power cars, and coal is a
hydrocarbon too. Whether you realize it or not, we do have an energy
production issue going into the future, with no known way to meet the
demand that is even a few decades off. There is no battery that can solve
that problem.


Sure... The engineers will get right on that. The advantage of
compressed air, is that it works today. We do not have a grid wide
electrical problem today. What we have is a gasoline problem.

Compressed air simply makes a better "battery", and they are in use
today. Cars based on the technology will be mass produced next year in
India. No car based pollution at all. And if the electrical source is
clean, no pollutants at all. No pollution technology needed in the car
at all.



I just do not find compressed air compelling. It is a very limited
technology that is unlikely to ever reach the United States anyway. This
fabulous car in India tops out at 68 mph and can go something like 100
miles without refueling. That isn't going to fly here, and it might not
even fly there, we'll see. Of course the technology can be used in
hybrids that would be more viable, and it is not necessarily a bad thing.

But in my opinion the potential of compressed air simply isn't that great.
Manufacturers have already claimed something like 90% efficiency for
turning the energy into something a car can use, and the energy density of
compressed air is extremely low compared to alternatives. I don't think
the technology has potential to make any great further leaps. It's large,
and it doesn't deliver a consistent voltage throughout the life of the
charge. It's energy density is very low and efficiency is already very
high - it simply isn't likely to get much better.

Solar powered cars that produced water as emissions and needed to energy
input besides sitting outside would clearly be far superior. Why you want
to debate batteries (not really the subject) and specifically support
compressed air as a solution to a global energy crisis I do not
understand. Conflict of interest? You do seem like a major producer of
air.

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