Re: OT: Perp Motion Cont. (the KTJones superforce)


"Kyle T. Jones" <KBfoMe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:g5oaad$erb$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
ruylopez wrote:

Just a couple quick comments:

On Jul 17 2008 2:02 PM, Kyle T. Jones wrote:

Ahh, see, I think this may be the crux... I don't believe I'm saying
what you think I'm saying.

I'm suggesting that the repulsive force arises from the vast amount of
vacuum that the black hole and golf balls are embedded in; remembering
that I'm not being literal when I say "repulsive" force. Look, you're
in a spacesuit, suspended out in the middle of space, not near any
significant mass. You seem to remain stationary because the vast volume
of vacuum around you is influencing you from each direction in equal
fashion.

Now, a black hole is introduced to your right:

Me BH

At this distance, the BH is absorbing force from the right of the BH
before it can influence you; it doesn't absorb coming from all the
vacuum to the left of you until it has already passed through you; you
are now being hit by more force from the vacuum to the right of the
black hole than from the vacuum to the left of you; ergo, you start
falling toward the black hole (and the black hole, in a much less
significant fashion, starts falling towards you).


Gravitational force does not get "absorbed". You are saying that mass
"displaces" vacuum, and thus alters the amount of force coming from the
direction of the displacement, correct?

Nope. That seems to be what you keep wanting me to say, but it never was
what I was saying.

That is the only way your model
makes any sense to me at all. My point is that you explain the massive
gravitational fields that surround superdense objects in this way,
requires some really large numbers for the uniform force that must be
pouring out of all vacuums. I'm pretty sure your concept of the black
hole "absorbing force" from the
right makes no sense, and has nothing to do with anything that really
happens in gravitational fields. They don't get absorbed, the force acts
and passes through and continues to act. That's easy to show.

I know what you're suggesting, so let's have a real look at it.

The problem is that you have no representation for density, vacuum is
vacuum with no variation by definition. Therefore, you are proposing
an
absolutely uniform force, the magnitude of which can only depend on one
thing: the volume of space occupied by the vacuum in question.

That sounds very similar to the force driving universal expansion, Ruy.
Perhaps it does both.


But you speak of a force so powerful it would rocket all galaxies apart,
while simultaneously collapsing them all on themselves into black holes.
(I think) You keep saying the math will work out the same, I say no way,
if you really wanted to try and put some numbers to it.

A supermassive black hole occupies essentially no space. If you want
to
change it to something more understandable we can make it a small,
super
dense neutron star. But let's consider the black hole first because
the
field it creates is of a larger magnitude. You're suggesting that this
vacuum force permeates space and is coming from all directions. You're
suggesting the the removal of a tiny amount of vacuum - say the amount
of
space occupied by a black hole (basically zero), can explain these
effects.

No, not at all! I'm suggesting that mass explains the effects. A black
hole has a huge amount of mass, which is why it is able to absorb *all*
the "repulsive force" coming from each direction;

Again, mass does not "absorb" the force of gravity. What the ***.
Do you have any freaking idea how much power you're giving this force?

In terms of warping space, I'm giving it exactly the amount of power
current theory gives the "attractive" force.


Warping space ... let's leave the 3D metaphor alone for now. None of us
can think in four dimensions. Gravity can be understood as a force that
comes from mass, and we can put numbers on this force that match
observations. Your model should be able to do the same thing.


Yeah, but that's the problem. We can't understand it in terms of mass to
mass attraction. Go ahead and deal with the light bending phenomena under
that interpretation.

E = mc^2. Gravity works on the mass-equivalent of the photon.
Wow, that was hard. Next?



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