Re: The economy and the Democrats

On Apr 4, 11:55 am, "Irish Mike" <mjos...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"Bob T." <b...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:32cf75b0-8ee5-4cd6-92c6-f49918d029f1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Apr 4, 1:13 am, "Irish Mike" <mjos...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:





"Boise" <onln...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:sv1hc5x3e7.ln2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

On Apr 3 2008 6:22 PM, Irish Mike wrote:

I have always said that the most important skill in poker is
discipline -
in
three specific areas. In how you prepare, how you play and how your
manage
your money. But, as any poker player can tell you, there are a lot of
players with piss poor money management skills. As a result, these
people
are broke ,or on the verge of being broke ,all the time. Same thing is
true
in real life.

That is right, the same IS true in real life. I would refer to the Bell
Curve distribution analysis.

A lot of Americans are concerned about the economy in general but most
specifically about the housing market.

About one specific house in the market. Unless you were a speculating
capitalist .

The collapse of the sub prime mortgage market and a record number of
home
foreclosures.

Never so many since the Depression.

Listening to Obama and Hillary you'd think it was all the
Republican's fault and that every family in America is just one pay
check
away from being put out on the street.

You don't need to listen to those politics tics...Just put your ear to
the
track and listen to the 65 % of Americans who feel a similar sentiment..

Well, here are a few facts:
Oh boy, here we go.

1. The banking and finance industry was deregulated in the 1990s under
Bill
Clinton.

And it worked fine under a Law abiding and regulation respecting finance
industry...That is till now, Liaise Faire.

2. There are 30M Americans who have paid off their mortgages and own
their
own homes.

So. ??? what's your point? Would it matter if it were 25 M or 35 M ?
I know what would matter. Are 30 M houses paid for, or are those 30 M
people living in a paid for house or husband and spouse.?
I bet it is the former, that would be impressive, unless you remember
that the average homeowner has a mortgage and those that have no
mortgage
are exceedingly more likely to own several other paid for homes.

3. There are 46M Americans who have mortgages and are making their
payments
on time.

This is my number, one of 46M. Does that include my wife? Because I
don't pay the mortgage.

4. There are 938K Americans who, for what ever reason, have their
mortgages
in foreclosure.

Damn, that's almost 2%. Interest on a home loan is only 6%. As a
Financial institution, you cannot have a 2% default rate on your loans
unless you wish to abdicate financial responsibility.

5. There are 6% of all mortgages that are adjustable and they account
for
40% of foreclosures.

Only 6%, Are you saying that over 90% of all mortgage holders have a
fixed
rate? That is very good news indeed. If your numbers hold true, they are
indicative of a borrowing society that knows the value of a
predetermined
cost.

6. There are 13% of all mortgages that are sub prime and they account
for
50%
of foreclosures.

Yeah , no kidding. The Industry took a bet and won for six years. Now
they are experiencing a default rate of 1 in 14 sub prime loans. And of
those adjustable rate mortgages, the default rate is almost 7 - 1 . Oh
snap, and those were supposed to be the safer type of loan.

I fully understand that any one can fall on hard times. That any one
can
temporarily be down on their luck. However, I go back to my basic
principle
of discipline in money management. The fact is that if you look at the
people who are in foreclosure, the majority of them have other
financial
problems. They bought a house that was more expensive than they could
afford. They were already up to their necks in high interest rate
credit
card debt and they owed on one or more vehicles they bought for no
money
down.

To heck with the homeowners that get to rent their old home for half
what
they paid monthly towards mortgage, Just so long as Bear Stearns can
postpone bankruptcy. And yes, the top 10 % who pay 80% of the taxes will
be required to pay for the mistakes of their financial system and its
members.

Were there predatory lending practices by some of these sub prime
lenders?
No doubt there were - it comes with deregulation of the market.
However,
in
the final analysis it comes down to sound money management which is the
personal responsibility of every individual in a free country. The
other
reality that is never mentioned is that some of these sub prime buyers
really
didn't care about their mortgage because they knew that if they were
finally
going to be evicted, they would just walked away from the whole mess
and/or
file for bankruptcy.

Or get a huge, taxpayer backed, ( 80% from the super rich, so no big
thing. )

As did Bear ste....See above.

But here's the relevant question. How much are the 76M Americans who
are
paying off, or have paid off, their mortgages willing to pay to bail
out
the
938K who, for what ever reason, find themselves in foreclosure?

Nothing, we don't need to ask the average homeowner to give anymore than
they already have in the form of lost home equity. But the top 10% of
income earners, the ones with speculation in there hearts, the ones that
teamed up with the likes of Bear stear...(see above.)... and nearly
accelerated the collapse of the financial system; Those are the people
that will ultimately pay the financial cost....as they should.

One final point about the "class warfare" political strategy that Obama
and
Hillary are implementing so successfully. The next time you hear them
talking about taxing the rich and lifting the tax burden from the poor,
you
might want to consider this fact. About 41% of Americans currently have
no
tax liability or file no tax return. The top 10% of the wealthiest
people
in America are already paying about 80% of the income tax. So when you
look
at who is actually going to pay for all this government growth and
these
new
entitlement, welfare and give away programs Obama and Hillary are
promising,
it will be middle class working Americans.

Wake up Mike, the middle class cannot pay anymore taxes. The middle
class has funded all they can for this Republican Administration. Anyone
can see that additional revenue will come from the top 10% of the income
scale. They are the persons who have utilized our Country's great
resources to the extent that they must now contribute more to the upkeep
of said great societal resources.

That is the way things can best work, for all of US.
Boise wrote:

"Wake up Mike, the middle class cannot pay anymore taxes. "

Yes they can and yes they will, if Obama gets elected. What the hell do
you
think is going to happen when Obama repeals Bush's tax cuts?

I doubt if anybody is going to do anything as simplistic as "repeal
Bush's tax cuts".  Some of those cuts will be repealing themselves
over the next couple of years.  Whoever is president, they are not
going to change all the tax rates instantly back to year 2000 rates.
There will be negotiation between the president and Congress, and
there will be compromises.

Here's a hint - taxes will increase for every middle class working family
in America.

When considering this topic, one always needs to bear in mind that
income taxes are not the only taxes.  The past seven years have seen
significant reductions in the estate and capital gains taxes.  If the
new president and Congress leave income taxes as they are now and
return estate and capital gains taxes to their 2000 levels it will
raise significant revenue and barely affect the middle class at all.

- Bob T.

Well first Bob, Obama's economic plan is absolutely *not* "to leave income
taxes as they are now".  You can't pay for all of his promised increases in
entitlement, welfare and give away programs, and the government growth that
goes with them, with out raising taxes.  Estimates are that just the
programs he has promised so far would require a one trillion dollar tax
increase over the next ten years.  In addition, his plan to raise the
capital gains tax by approximately 66% will drastically impact the middle
class, as well as the entire economy.  It will stiffle economic growth,
discourage investment, discourage savings, penalize entrepreneurs, punish
small businesses, reduce available jobs, lower wages and make the U.S. even
less competitive in foreigh markets.  It's one of the typical Democrat class
war fare tactics.  It sounds good to those who are uneducated and looking
for more entitlements but it's the middle class working people who end up
paying the cost.

As I said before, John McCain is the only candidate who wants to grow the
economy, reduce spending and reduce big government.  McCain, unlike Hillary
and Obama, has not filled his pockets with special interest money and he is
the only one who opposes ear-marks and who has not accepted them.

He's so interested in "growing the economy" that he voted against the
Bush Tax Cuts and cited class warfare rhetoric in doing so!!! I can't
wait till he's our President!

You idiots that are going to vote for this idiot are all idiots. He
doesn't even do a good job of telling you what you want to hear.
.

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