Re: NLHE hand for discussion

On Jan 2 2008 10:40 AM, Bronzedodger wrote:

Total speculation: calling is not good.

I completely disagree, here's why:

If you're behind to AA/KK/QQ/77/x2 there are only 2 cards that help you

Then it doesn't matter when you put the money in, and in fact calling is
preferred because you're not investing any more money, yet. Plus you
actually get to see the next card, which could in fact be one of the two
that help you. His range is obviously wider and definitely contains
hands you're ahead of, which is why calling is ok, despite not getting
odds on your two outer.

One last note, you actually might create your own bluffing opportunity if
he was trapping with KK/QQ, where you might get him to fold if an A (or a
K in the case of the QQ) hits. You'd have to have a sick read to pull
this off, but it's an option you have that you don't have by re-raising
the flop.

If you get a card in 3 -> 10 range and he bets again you still have no idea
where you are

Again, not really relevant, and a raise isn't going to tell you much more
than you already know, and it probably pot commits you except against the
nittyest of nits.

And even if he checks, if you were behind before, you're behind again.

And if he checks the turn, you check right back and get a free shot at
your two outer on the river. This is actually a really nice spot if you
are in fact behind.

However, it's rare the opponent will try to check-raise you twice in this
spot, so you should probably bet if he checks and then fold to his (should
be rare) check-raise. You don't want to give the diamond draw a free
shot, and that would be his most likely hand if he does in fact check.

I think you need to re-raise on the flop as you get the info you want now

The only thing is...if you raise to say 50BB or so, then you have to be
damn sure he's not going nuts with something like 88-TT, T9h, etc...
before you fold to his 4-bet, otherwise you're making a big mistake.

instead of calling then maybe betting again on the turn just as lost as
you are now.

If you're willing to re-raise and commit, again, say 50BB which would
possibly commit you, then there's no harm in calling and waiting to put
that money in on the turn. In fact, it's probably the preferred route
because:

a) if the flush comes in on the turn, you're ahead of much less of his
range and can then save that extra 42BB.
b) if he IS on a bluff, you let him continue bluffing, whereas re-raising
will blast him off the bluff.

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