Re: You watch too much poker on TV...

On Nov 19, 11:18 pm, ikab...@xxxxxxxxx (- ikabopo -) wrote:
***This is one of the most laughable posts on here in a long time.
Let's do some analysis.

1/2 B&M Donkfests, "The Long Run", and Me

Group: rec.gambling.poker Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2007, 1:47pm (EST-3) From:
Tsull...@xxxxxxx (TimSully)
I played a little $1/2 for the first time in 2 weeks on Saturday
morning. I showed up at about 8:30am, and by 1:30pm i had finally busted
my original $150 buy-in after being up well over $40 at one point!
I have no idea how to adjust to the table conditions i witnessed...well,
i do, i should have walked away.

***So why didn't you?

I witnessed a woman call my PF raise of $15 with A-2o with one other
caller behind who had A-4 while i had queens. The flop was A high and i
gave up on the hand when Donkerella made it $10 to go into a $45 pot.
There was heavy action as Donknasty had made 2 pair on the turn , but
Donkerella still had top pair, no kicker, and a gutshot. She hit the
gutshot and took A MONSTTER pot down.

***Then next time you have Queens, either A) limp, B) raise a larger
amount, or C) realize that sometimes you will be outflopped, and stop
whining.

I witnessed a kid who would call any pot sized bet with a flush draw,
straight draw...***, maybe even a pair draw. I got him to bluff $20
when i flopped trip kings w/an Ace kicker, but that's all i got out of
the money tree sitting
across from me.

***If he would call any pot sized bet with these unmade hands, why
wouldn't you lead into him with big bets when you made the trip Kings?
Why would you try to get this guy to bluff, when you say he'll call
anything?

When i saw Donkerella in all of her glory i was psyched. I couldn't wait
to get my hands on some of her ill-gotten chips. Then it occured to
me...how the *** do you play against a player who could hold any two
cards? I mean, LITERALLY.

***Well, you could be patient, and play tighter against her, and wait to
make the nuts or close to it.

I watched her crack someone's Aces by calling an 8.5xBB preflop raise
with the J-7 of hearts. On the turn the kid bet $95 into a $70ish pot
and she called with a naked flush draw, and hit.
A while back i decided that a kid flopped a pair of aces with Ace rag up
front and repopped his $10 bet to $55 because there was some money in
the pot. He called with A-6 and we then checked it down. I would have
put my stack in but i figured he would probably call another fucking
$150 with it. I wasn't playing aggressively or anything that day, that
was teh first time i made a rasie like that.

***Why are you even trying to bluff people that you feel will call any
bet???

3 weeks ago i was involved in a hand where the pot was $67, i had about
$73 left and on the turn had a gutshot, 2 overcards, and a flush draw.

***So what you are saying is that you do NOT have a made hand, and there
is only one card to come.

I knew my opponent well, he was a jackass middle pair playing no odds
for a draw chasing loose passive player. He checked the turn, i put him
on middle pair or some garbage after he called me on the flop, and i put
my stack in. He shrugged and called with 3rd pair of 8's, with an open
ended straight draw...using 3 cards from the board and 1 from his hand.

***So, with NO made hand, you decided to try to bluff a player that will
call anything.

He spit out "I KNEW YOU HAD NOTHING!!!" and "I WAS OPEN ENDED!!!"

***He was right.

Yes sir, yes, you are an excellent player, nice hand. He spiked a queen
which gave me TPTK on the river and him a straight.

***You were trailing before the river. You needed help, not him. Don't
try to make it sound like he sucked out.

My mistake was that i only got half way there in my thinking...i should
have thought, this guy flopped middle pair, AND will probably call my
all in with it. Still with 17 outs or so, if i figure to have a little
fold equity it's not a bad play...anyway.

***When they will call anything, you have no fold equity. Check the
turn and try to make a hand before you go to war with a player who will
make big calls with weak holdings.

Now...i will never complain about stuff like this, it irks me
but...people play how they want to, and "in the long run" i'll
outperform them.

***Not playing this way you won't.

But...how long is the long run? I think it's too long for me.
The only way i can think to consistenly beat a field of players who
don't know what they're doing is to...have the nuts or damn close.

***Holy moly, you do know how to beat this game!!! Yet for some reason
you will not be patient, tighten up, and execute this strategy in your
actual play. Sounds like you are playing for entertainment and not to
win money.

There were probably 3-4 players like this in my game on Saturday and
they were all hitting.
I've gotten to thinking that...this isn't poker really, not by any
practical definition.

***Yes it is, it's just not the poker that you are used to watching on
TV. When's the last time you saw a $1/$2 game on TV?

People were playing worse than the first time i ever played hold 'em
when i turned a flush over and said "i umm...got a pair of 8's ?" I
can't sharpen my skills against a field of Joey Jackass and Janey
Jack-Deuce s00teds.

***Are you playing to sharpen your skills or to win money?

Now, at the same time, i am a little intimidated by the $2/5 game, i
can't lie. I walk by and there's always someone with a 2K stack. The max
buy-in is $500 - about 1/3 my "bankroll". I want to jump in on the
action though. I have no doubt that i can learn better playing in this
game, and definitely don't think that i'll be a total fish at that
level, as i've spectated plenty of games in the past.

***Yes you will, if you play as you have described above.

One thing that runs in my mind though is that everything i'm thinking is
a common complaint and justification that players make to go up in
limits. "Oh if i just didn't play against such horrible players i know
i'd win more". When others say it, it sounds like they're trying to
justify it in their own minds. When i run through it in my mind,
applying it to my situation, it seems to make sense.

***It makes no sense. Playing against the worst possible players can
only be good for your bankroll. But you want to play the way that you
see on the TV, and that's not how to beat a $1/$2 game.

I had a winning record at $1/2 for a while, and i'm actually in the RED
right now over 36 sessions. Well, i'm actually in the black overall
taking into account my online sessions, but still.
Is what i'm saying plausible in any way? Has anyone had a similar
experience and found that moving up was a good move? I think i've
reached a point of frustration with the $1/2 game at Foxwoods that i'd
rather go lose $1500 in 3 sessions to someone i could legitimately say
"nice hand" to than lose it to a field of players who would limp with
J-8o utg then cold call a bet and raise to $22 over the course of the
next 6 months. I don't plan on losing, but if i do lose, and have a
choice, i'd prefer the former.

***Plan on losing until you adjust your game to a very patient,
wait-to-make-big-hands style. In an 8-hour session of $1/$2 NLHE, most
of your profit should be made in about 3 to 6 single hands. If you are
not playing this way, you are not going to win.

The other thing i'm thinking is to play some limit for a while...play
something else to kind of flush the donk venom out of my sytem. I can
beat the O8 game at Foxwoods with ease but i put max earnings in that
game at like $200 over SEVVVERAL hours. Bah. At this point i'm just
wondering aloud but...who else has felt this way, and what have you done
about it?

***Now I'm waiting for your response telling me that I'm wrong; but I
win consistently at NLHE, and you post on here about how you are in the
red at $1/$2. But go ahead and respond anyway.

-ikabopo-

Flamer
.