Re: OT: Chicago's record cold proves no global warmin

On Sat, 15 Sep 07 17:37:09 GMT, ruylopez <43087387@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


Why do you grasp onto this science of the sun and completely deny the mountains
of science that implicates us?  There may well be mechanisms of the sun that
have an effect here as well.  But that doesn't mean what we're doing has none. 
They are not mutually exclusive.  The science of carbon in the atmosphere
leading to increased temperature is much, much more developed that what you have
brought to the table here.  It's plain fact, really.  So is the increase in
atmopheric carbon which has been indisputably caused by us. 


Well, we don't really KNOW that.

I kind of hesitate to quote from some site that calls themselves
"friends of science", but what the Hell.

http://www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=3

Myths / Facts
COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING

MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented
rate.

FACT: Accurate satellite, balloon and mountain top observations made
over the last three decades have not shown any significant change in
the long term rate of increase in global temperatures. Average ground
station readings do show a mild warming of 0.6 to 0.8C over the last
100 years, which is well within the natural variations recorded in the
last millennium. The ground station network suffers from an uneven
distribution across the globe; the stations are preferentially located
in growing urban and industrial areas ("heat islands"), which show
substantially higher readings than adjacent rural areas ("land use
effects").

There has been no catastrophic warming recorded.

MYTH 2: The "hockey stick" graph proves that the earth has
experienced a steady, very gradual temperature increase for 1000
years, then recently began a sudden increase.

FACT: Significant changes in climate have continually occurred
throughout geologic time. For instance, the Medieval Warm Period, from
around 1000 to1200 AD (when the Vikings farmed on Greenland) was
followed by a period known as the Little Ice Age. Since the end of the
17th Century the "average global temperature" has been rising at the
low steady rate mentioned above; although from 1940 ? 1970
temperatures actually dropped, leading to a Global Cooling scare.

The "hockey stick", a poster boy of both the UN's IPCC and Canada's
Environment Department, ignores historical recorded climatic swings,
and has now also been proven to be flawed and statistically unreliable
as well. It is a computer construct and a faulty one at that.

MYTH 3: Human produced carbon dioxide has increased over the last 100
years, adding to the Greenhouse effect, thus warming the earth.

FACT: Carbon dioxide levels have indeed changed for various reasons,
human and otherwise, just as they have throughout geologic time. Since
the beginning of the industrial revolution, the CO2 content of the
atmosphere has increased. The RATE of growth during this period has
also increased from about 0.2% per year to the present rate of about
0.4% per year,which growth rate has now been constant for the past 25
years. However, there is no proof that CO2 is the main driver of
global warming. As measured in ice cores dated over many thousands of
years, CO2 levels move up and down AFTER the temperature has done so,
and thus are the RESULT OF, NOT THE CAUSE of warming. Geological field
work in recent sediments confirms this causal relationship. There is
solid evidence that, as temperatures move up and down naturally and
cyclically through solar radiation, orbital and galactic influences,
the warming surface layers of the earth's oceans expel more CO2 as a
result.

MYTH 4: CO2 is the most common greenhouse gas.

FACT: Greenhouse gases form about 3 % of the atmosphere by volume.
They consist of varying amounts, (about 97%) of water vapour and
clouds, with the remainder being gases like CO2, CH4, Ozone and N2O,
of which carbon dioxide is the largest amount. Hence, CO2 constitutes
about 0.037% of the atmosphere. While the minor gases are more
effective as "greenhouse agents" than water vapour and clouds, the
latter are overwhelming the effect by their sheer volume and ? in the
end ? are thought to be responsible for 60% of the "Greenhouse
effect".
Those attributing climate change to CO2 rarely mention this important
fact.


MYTH 5: Computer models verify that CO2 increases will cause
significant global warming.

FACT: Computer models can be made to "verify" anything by changing
some of the 5 million input parameters or any of a multitude of
negative and positive feedbacks in the program used.. They do not
"prove" anything. Also, computer models predicting global warming are
incapable of properly including the effects of the sun, cosmic rays
and the clouds. The sun is a major cause of temperature variation on
the earth surface as its received radiation changes all the time, This
happens largely in cyclical fashion. The number and the lengths in
time of sunspots can be correlated very closely with average
temperatures on earth, e.g. the Little Ice Age and the Medieval Warm
Period. Varying intensity of solar heat radiation affects the surface
temperature of the oceans and the currents. Warmer ocean water expels
gases, some of which are CO2. Solar radiation interferes with the
cosmic ray flux, thus influencing the amount ionized nuclei which
control cloud cover.


MYTH 6: The UN proved that man?made CO2 causes global warming.
FACT: In a 1996 report by the UN on global warming, two statements
were deleted from the final draft. Here they are:
1) ?None of the studies cited above has shown clear evidence that
we can attribute the observed climate changes to increases in
greenhouse gases.?
2) ?No study to date has positively attributed all or part of the
climate change to man?made causes?

To the present day there is still no scientific proof that man-made
CO2 causes significant global warming.



MYTH 7: CO2 is a pollutant.

FACT: This is absolutely not true. Nitrogen forms 80% of our
atmosphere. We could not live in 100% nitrogen either. Carbon dioxide
is no more a pollutant than nitrogen is. CO2 is essential to life on
earth. It is necessary for plant growth since increased CO2 intake as
a result of increased atmospheric concentration causes many trees and
other plants to grow more vigorously. Unfortunately, the Canadian
Government has included CO2 with a number of truly toxic and noxious
substances listed by the Environmental Protection Act, only as their
means to politically control it.
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This is a break in the pre-recorded message to let the casual reader
digest it.

We animals breathe out carbon dioxide after every breath we take.

So shall we only inhale and not exhale?

Does the War against Carbon Dioxide mean we need to kill ourselves?

But I digress.
Let us continue.

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MYTH 8: Global warming will cause more storms and other weather
extremes.

FACT: There is no scientific or statistical evidence whatsoever that
supports such claims on a global scale. Regional variations may
occur. Growing insurance and infrastructure repair costs, particularly
in coastal areas, are sometimes claimed to be the result of increasing
frequency and severity of storms, whereas in reality they are a
function of increasing population density, escalating development
value, and ever more media reporting.



MYTH 9: Receding glaciers and the calving of ice shelves are proof of
global warming.

FACT: Glaciers have been receding and growing cyclically for
hundreds of years. Recent glacier melting is a consequence of coming
out of the very cool period of the Little Ice Age. Ice shelves have
been breaking off for centuries. Scientists know of at least 33
periods of glaciers growing and then retreating. It?s normal. Besides,
glacier's health is dependent as much on precipitation as on
temperature.


MYTH 10: The earth?s poles are warming; polar ice caps are breaking
up and melting and the sea level rising.

FACT: The earth is variable. The western Arctic may be getting
somewhat warmer, due to unrelated cyclic events in the Pacific Ocean,
but the Eastern Arctic and Greenland are getting colder. The small
Palmer Peninsula of Antarctica is getting warmer, while the main
Antarctic continent is actually cooling. Ice thicknesses are
increasing both on Greenland and in Antarctica.

Sea level monitoring in the Pacific (Tuvalu) and Indian Oceans
(Maldives) has shown no sign of any sea level rise.

More FACTS and MYTHS? See what Professor deFreitas has to say. Click
here.
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To me, the most interesting part is the one about C02 and warming.

They maintain, from a study of geological evidence, that the rise in
C02 PRECEDES the rise of temperatures.

Cause or Effect?
Chicken or the Egg?

Enough to make a guy's head hurt.

Unlike many on your side I do feel like you're a smart guy FL.  Not that I know
enough.  I don't understand how you can deny so much good science and then quote
new, undeveloped, and non-contradictory science in an attempt to refute it.


Well, Science marches on, doesn't it?

I'm glad I've never claimed any more scientific, technological,
mathematical, or political knowledge than what a High School senior in
the 50s was expected to know.

Remind me to tell you about my science teacher in the 50s that pointed
to the SAC B52 bombers taking off belching out gigantic smoke clouds
as proof that the planet was going to run out of oil, Real Soon Now.
.

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