Re: OT: The Great Fleecing of America
- From: FL Turbo <noemail@xxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:17:58 -0500
On Fri, 31 Aug 07 20:47:43 GMT, ruylopez <43087387@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Can I presume that you are claiming that the roof of WTC7 reached
On Aug 31 2007 4:10 PM, ChrisRobin wrote:
I hate to quibble with your figures, but it's impossible for ANYTHING to fall
faster than free fall.
Of course, you're right, I meant .5 seconds slower than free fall. 6 seconds is
the free fall time from that top story, it actually fell in 6.5. Pretty
amazing, and totally rules out any theory where floors are falling onto each
other. You can see this in 1 and 2 as well, the only way something falls that
fast is if all the floors fall simulataneously.
ground level 6.5 seconds from the time that the building started to
collapse?
Where did you get that information?
I have seen plenty of information about the speed of collapse of the
Twin Tower, but not much about how fast WTC7 collapsed.
Through the magic of the Internet.
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=016182179862191393560%3Ahx2yxincxdu
9/11 POWER Debunker (TM)
A specialized google search engine which yields the following site in
a search under "free fall"
http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/index.php?title=7_World_Trade_Center
7 World Trade Center
A view of WTC 7 taken on August 14, 1992
7 World Trade Center, behind and to the left of the Twin Towers7 World
Trade Center, located across Vesey Street from the Twin Towers and
other World Trade Center buildings, was built in the early-mid 1980s,
on top of a two-story Con Edison substation. 7 World Trade Center
collapsed at 5:20 pm on September 11, 2001, after suffering extensive
damage from fires and falling debris from the collapse of the World
Trade Center towers. Soon after September 11, 2001, FEMA initiated a
preliminary study into the collapse of the World Trade Center
buildings, including 7 World Trade Center. This was followed up by a
more extensive investigation by NIST, which is still ongoing
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Data about WTC7 omitted here)
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Fires
When the North Tower collapsed, the antenna fell and cut through the
façade of Building 7, rupturing fuel lines leading to storage tanks
used by New York City's emergency services.[10] Following the collapse
of WTC1 (North Tower), fires were observed in 7 World Trade Center on
the south side of the building, at floors 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, and 19.[11]
Sprinklers were not working, and water pressure (to enable
firefighting efforts) was very low, so firefighting was curtailed.
Fires continued to burn, unabated throughout the day. At 3:30 pm,
darker plumes of smoke were observed coming from 7 World Trade Center,
indicative of fire fueled by oil.[11] By 5 pm, large amounts of dark
smoke were coming out of the lower floors.[11] These observations
indicate that the temperature of the fire was hotter than typical
office fires, and the presence of fuel tanks and cut fuel lines in the
building are suspected as a factors.[11]
The building's fireproofing (passive fire protection) was the last
line of defense, absent working sprinklers and firefighting efforts.
The fireproofing is designed to protect building structural elements
for a certain, limited amount of time while firefighting is done.[11]
Such a building is generally designed to resist heat buildup for three
hours.[12]
Dr. Astaneh-Asl, a structural engineer from U.C. Berkeley who was
on-site after 9/11 to examine steel, saw a charred horizontal I-beam
from 7 World Trade Center, a 47-story skyscraper that collapsed from
fire eight hours after the attacks. The beam, so named because its
cross-section looks like a capital I, had clearly endured searing
temperatures. Parts of the flat top of the I, once five-eighths of an
inch thick, had vaporized. Less clear was whether the beam had been
charred after the collapse, as it lay in the pile of burning rubble,
or whether it had been engulfed in the fire that led to the building's
collapse, which would provide a more telling clue. The answer lay in
the beam's twisted shape. As weight pushed down, the center portion
had buckled outward. "This tells me it buckled while it was attached
to the column," not as it fell, Dr. Astaneh-Asl said, adding, "It had
burned first, then buckled."[13]
[edit] Damage
Damage to 7 World Trade Center from falling debris due to the collapse
of the Twin Towers was extensive. Among damage observed was a 10 story
gash, from the 8 to 18th floor, on the southwest corner of the
building. Around 2 o'clock in the afternoon, firefighters noticed a
bulge in the southwest corner of 7 World Trade Center, between the 10
and 13th floors, which was a sign that the building might
collapse.[14]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------
Lieutenant Rudy Weindler of Ladder Company 40
"we saw a fire starting to show at windows in 7 World Trade Center,
decided to go in and try and see if there was anybody in the building
and/or put out the fires, and we did a search from floor to floor of 7
World Trade Center passing fire on floors 3, 7, 9. The standpipes had
no water. We tried to extinguish a few fires with cans. When we got to
11, there was just too much smoke and we decided that, without water,
if we went any higher, we'd be on fool's mission.
So we left 7 World Trade Center, back down to the street, where I ran
into Chief Coloe from the 1st Division, Captain Varriale, Engine 24,
and Captain Varriale told Chief Coloe and myself that 7 World Trade
Center was badly damaged on the south side and definitely in danger of
collapse. Chief Coloe said we were going to evacuate the collapse zone
around 7 World Trade Center, which we did."
Captain Robert Sohmer Ladder 85
"As the day went on they started worrying about 7 World Trade Center
collapsing and they ordered an evacuation from that area so at that
time, we left the area with the other companies, went back to the
command post on Broadway, where we were instructed, they were looking
for companies to go to the west side to operate on the bridges, to cut
members out that they had confirmed were pinned and trapped under the
bridges on the west side.
A Battalion Chief was assigned to us. We took our apparatus to West
Street to the north bridge, on that side over there, where we began to
operate. We had identified different members who were deceased and
trapped in rigs. We were about to proceed our operation there and this
was in the afternoon, I would say approximately maybe 2:00 roughly,
where we started to operate and then they asked us to fall back again
due to the potential of 7 World Trade Center collapsing."
He was operating between 4 and 5 World Trade Center, when "They made
us evacuate due to the fear of 7 coming down."
------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------
The site has pictures showing the damage to the south side of the
building.
The pictures of a pristine WTC are those of the north side of the
building.
So then how fast did the building fall?
Here is the only mention I could find about that.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Free fall?
[edit] Claim
7 World Trade Center fell in 6.8 seconds -- in free fall speed.
[edit] Fact
The collapse did not occur at free fall speed. It took 16 seconds,
with the east mechanical penthouse beginning to collapse 8.2 seconds
before any more obvious signs of total collapse (as seen on videos).
How fast did WTC7 fall - video
--------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------
I didn't watch the video, so I have no opinion on that.
(Here, supposedly the claim was 6.8 seconds instead of 6.5, but I'm
not about to quibble over 0.3 seconds.)
If you disregard the penthouse collapse of 8.2 seconds, that still
leaves 7.8 second for the roof down.
The site is interesting, if only for the pictures.
The last picture shows the North Tower collapsing, with the debris
hitting WTC7.
.
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