Re: Question for the odds "advantage" proponents?

"jerseyguy" <jerseyguy101@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote

"Question
Why do the Casinos allow you to make an odds bet with no advantage?
Answer
Because it puts more money into play AFTER they have a clear and improved
advantage. That's why the >odds wager is only allowed after the point is
established."

Jersey, you answered the question "When". You did not answer the question
"Why".

The answer to the question "Why" is that hte odds wager is offered as an
incentive to the players to make the line bet. The house gains no income from
the additional money which is placed in play as the odds wager after the point
is established on line bets.

Thank you alan, but I think mason will not consider that point based on his
"math".

What utter nonsense! The circumstances of the odds bet is obvious and not in
question.

MoneyLA contends that the odds bet alone provides some advantage to the house
based on his "syntactical" interpretation of House Advantage. He can not
quantify what this is.

On the other hand, I can specify exactly what no House Advantage on the odds
wager means. It means the bank is not more likely to win more money from a
player making the line bet with and odds wager than it is to win from a player
making the line bet alone. That is my simplified definition of House Advantage.

However, let's take the out of the realm of "Mason's 'math'". Let's ASK UNLV.
Then you can take "math" out of quotes since you will find that House Advantage
is explicitly defined.

excerpted from ...
PDF
http://gaming.unlv.edu/subject/pdf/casino_math.pdf
HTML (attn: JB who can't read PDFs on his primitive equipment <g>)
http://gaming.unlv.edu/subject/casinomath.html

A Guide to Casino Mathematics
Robert C. Hannum *
University of Denver

The player's chances of winning in a casino game and the rate at which he wins
or loses money depends on the game, the rules in effect for that game, and for
some games his level of skill.

The amount of money the player can expect to win or lose in the long run - if
the bet is made over and over again - is called the player's wager expected
value (EV), or expectation. When the player's wager expectation is negative, he
will lose money in the long run. For a $5 bet on the color red in roulette, for
example, the expectation is -$0.263. On the average the player will lose just
over a quarter for each $5 bet on red.

When the wager expectation is viewed from the casino's perspective (i.e., the
negative of the player's expectation) and expressed as a percentage, you have
the house advantage. For the roulette example, the house advantage is 5.26%
($0.263 divided by $5).

The formal calculation is as follows:
EV = (+5)(18/38) + (-5)(20/38) = -0.263
(House Advantage = 0.263/5 = 5.26%)
................
The house advantage represents the long run percentage of the wagered money that
will be retained by the casino. It is also called the house edge, the "odds"
(i.e., avoid games with bad odds), or just the percentage" (as in Mario Puzo's
Fools Die). Although the house edge can be computed easily for some games - for
example, roulette and craps - for others it requires more sophisticated
mathematical analysis and/or computer simulations. Regardless of the method used
to compute it, the house advantage represents the price to the player of playing
the game.

Because this positive house edge exists for virtually all bets in a casino
(ignoring the poker room
and sports book where a few professionals can make a living), gamblers are faced
with an uphill
and, in the long run, losing battle. There are some exceptions. The odds bet in
craps has zero
house edge (although this bet cannot be made without making another negative
expectation
wager) and there are a few video poker machines that return greater than 100% if
played with
perfect strategy.

........................................

I commend the entire paper to your attention, Jersey.

However, the following should clarify what house advantage means in a casino
according to gaming industry standards ...

"The house advantage ? the all-important percentage that explains how casinos
make money ? is also called the house edge, the theoretical win percentage, and
expected win percentage."

Please let me know if you find any of this ambiguous or unclear after reading
the paper, Jersey.
--
Onward thru the fog,
Mason

* Bob Hannum is an Associate Professor of Statistics at the University of Denver
where he teaches courses in probability, statistics and the theory of gambling.
His publications include Practical Casino Math (co-authored with Anthony N.
Cabot) and numerous articles in scholarly and gaming industry journals. Hannum
regularly speaks on casino mathematics to audiences around the globe.

"jerseyguy" <jerseyguy101@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:12715inqf8n6165@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Thank you alan, but I think mason will not consider that point based on his
"math".

Jersey


alan wrote:
Jerseyguy wrote: "I've had this discussion with alan already. He has
his opinion and maybe
he's correct. Here's my opinion:
Question
Why do the Casinos allow you to make an odds bet with no advantage?
Answer
Because it puts more money into play AFTER they have a clear and
improved advantage. That's why the odds wager is only allowed after the

point is established."

By golly, I think you've got it!!

I agree with you so much on this, Im tempted to unblock the posts of
Mason and Shank to see what they have to say about your statement.

Good work, jerseyguy.




.

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