Re: sourdough experiment
- From: "Dusty Bleher" <bakerboy2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 12:16:24 -0800
Hello Dan & all;
Okay, been readin' & ponderin'...
"dan w" <danw4@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:3fadnba2a95NPT7enZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
....
> now, almost exclusively sd, and i have been disappointed with the
> lack of
> sour taste in my bread. in the past i have tried a number of
> things to get
As have I.
....
> so I spent some time researching souring my sd.. mike avery has a
> very nice
> page with helpful suggestions here:
> http://www.sourdoughhome.com/sour.html
Yes he does. Also, Samarth has some excellent pages. Both are well
worth the time to browse.
....
> i first wanted to know if cooling the final dough had any major
> effect on
> sour and overall taste, and also wanted to know how using my mixer
> (ka pro
Yep. That's been a point of interest for me as well. I've read all
of the recommendations often posted here for those "retarded" rises
and how they help to sour the bread. I've tried them. And I never
got the results I was told to expect. In fact, it makes less sense.
Cuz, IIRC; the LB's are more active at a warmer temperature than the
yeasts. While cooling should retard the activity of the yeasts, it
would seem to me that the LB's would be even further retarded. So
it just didn't add up.
Please note; I'm not saying the "retarding" concept has no merit.
Only that in *my* experience, using *my* methods, and *my* starter;
it's been a dismal failure (at least so far). And if I have to
change anything in one or more of those variables, I will.
> 5) compared to using the no mix method. since I have two active,
> and I think
> stable starters, i decided to make four loaves at once. one from
> each
> starter would be proofed and risen the same day, and the other two
> would be
> identical except after dough stage, they would go in the refer 36
> hrs.
Wow! 36 hours! Did the dough rise much in the fridge? When you
took it out, did you notice any different or distinguishing aromas?
> my general recipe was as follows: 1/4 c sd, 1c ap flour, 1c ro
> water // wait
> for good activity (4-6 hrs) and then add ½ c ww flour and ½ c ro
> water //
> wait for peak activity and stir in 3 tsp kosher salt // add 1 c ww
> flour and
> 1 c ap flour // mix by hand and do 4 folds 45 min each or mix by
> dough hook
> approx 4 min speed 2. form loaf, rise and bake at 450° 25 min and
> 400° 15
> min, int temp 190°.
Yep. Sounds pretty straight-forward...
> as a result of baking these loaves i made the following changes in
> the
> recipe: salt from 3 tsp to 2 tsp // final flour mixture- 3/4 c ww
> flour and
3-tsp to 2-tsp? Why? What was your cue?
> 1 c ap flour // oven temp 425° for 40 min.
>
> loaves #1 and #2
> http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-12/1121372/bread12.jpg
>
> these were the two i did without refer time. #1 i mixed by mixer
> and #2 by
> no mix method. loaf #1
Wow! Your results were far more dramatic than my own. While I've
always gotten good loft--equal to or better than from mixing--since
I changed to "no-mixer", I can't say I got as much as you did. Good
job!
> http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-12/1121372/Bread1crumb.jpg was
> shaped
....
> loaves #3 and #4
> http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-12/1121372/Bread34.jpg
....
> http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-12/1121372/Bread3crumb.jpg
> http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-12/1121372/Bread3.jpg was
> shaped into a
....
> #2. loaf #4
> http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-12/1121372/Bread4crumb.jpg -
Good pix!
....
> reforming, i allowed to rise for additional hr, slashed and baked.
> result
> was good sour taste, wheat very noticeable, dense crumb with chewy
> and nice
> flavor holes, med-light crust, nice oven spring.
>
> conclusion- biggest effect on sour seemed to be making the starter
> a smaller
> portion of the recipe. formerly i used 1 c starter to begin same
> recipe.
A most interesting point. Given that this would most effect the
"working" time of the dough, that point certainly has legs...
> there is a better balance of flavors when it sits in the refer.
> future
> experiments i will try to determine the best refer time for my
> starters.
> using ww flour also helped to get a better taste, as both of my
> starters are
> ap flour base. also using the no mix method had a superior effect
> on the
Did you use "Stretch&Fold" or "Flatten&Fold"?
> final bread, larger holes and better crumb structure, although I
> will have
> to adjust to working with higher hydration dough. my general
> reference for
> determining a good sd bread is san francisco sd bread.
10-4 that!
> question- has anyone else had good success getting sf style taste
> with a
> certain method? grain type, proof time or temp, etc?
Not yet. That's why I've been devouring your words on that
subject...(:-o)!
L8r all,
Dusty
.
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