Re: Meat Prices Going Up

In article <461FF1E8.150BAB26@xxxxxxxx>,
"Pete C." <aux3.DOH.4@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

Emma Thackery wrote:

In article <461F0868.733B9212@xxxxxxxx>,
"Pete C." <aux3.DOH.4@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

Emma Thackery wrote:

In article <461ECF86.1385426F@xxxxxxxx>,
"Pete C." <aux3.DOH.4@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

While some PYVs have have their big SUV for no good reason, they
represent a pretty small percentage of the users.

What are the "good reasons" and on what data are you basing your claim?

Good reasons would be about the same as those for the big station wagons
that were the SUVs of yesteryear. Terrible antisocial activities like
taking the two kids and a couple of their friends on a camping trip for
the weekend with a boat (or PWC or ATVs or whatever) in tow.

It is discomfiting to parse the sarcasm. You obviously have something
nagging at you but I'm not clear about what it is. I can only wonder if
your statements stem mainly from being criticized for having an SUV or
going camping or having children or whatever. I'm going out on a bit of
a limb here to assume it's the first you've taken personally. You might
be hesitant to put a real name on it because then you might have to face
up to what it really is.

I don't have an SUV.

Trucks (pickups), SUVs, vans, minivans, whatever your nomenclature, are
all classified as light trucks (though with so many at over 6000# now,
that is hardly "light"). I'm using the term "SUV" generically to
include them all. My point stands.

<relevance snips>

My point is that that this myth of all these irresponsible people
suddenly buying huge SUVs for no good reason is just that, a myth being
hyped by the eco crowd.

Well you certainly haven't provided a shred of evidence to support your
"myth" theory. And I have a feeling that "eco-crowd" is only one of
many labels you use, intended as pejoratives, to cast anyone who
disagrees with you in a bad light. It's just so much easier and more
convenient than dealing with facts.

People are basically buying the same vehicles
they have been buying for years since today's SUV = yesterdays big
station wagon.

US Dept. of Transportation statistics do not support your claim. But
here's something easier. Just watch any old movie from the 1950s, 60s
or 70s. Look at the parking lots and vehicles parked on the streets.
You will see very few vehicles in the light truck or truck category.
You're in denial... just plain wrong.

Here's the thing. Some of us have managed to raise families, go
camping, fishing, boating, tend scout troops, carpool, shop, cart around
trees & shrubs, pick up loads of manure and mulch for the garden, etc,
etc, etc....... and all without ever having owned an SUV or a truck....

Here is the thing. I don't turn over vehicles every two years like some
ego-centric bozos do.... [...]

The age of your truck is irrelevant to this discussion. Whether it is
one year or 15 years old, the same set of problems remains. But btw, I
live on a rural route and drive a 1992 car that has just over 70,000
miles on it.

...What I resent is the constant clueless claims that all these
people driving the big empty vehicles solo to the grocery store don't
need them and are wasteful. In some cases this may be true, in most
it isn't.

But we live in a "free" country right? And we can buy what we want even
if it affects others in a negative way. Hell, we even have an executive
branch, right now, that decided to reward pick-up trucks and SUVs for
their over-dependence on oil by not having to pay their fair share for
road maintenance, air quality, etc, even though they pollute the air
more, use more energy, and are harder on the roads than most plain old
"cars". Lots of them even got tax subsidized rebates. Such a deal, eh?
Not.

Not sure where you get your idea that people in trucks and SUVs aren't
paying their fair share.

Open your eyes for a change. SUVs are classified as light trucks. All
vehicles in that category, including yours, are subject to far less
demanding environmental restrictions. Your vehicle is allowed to belch
out up to 5 times the amount of air pollution as my car. The cost to
the environment has to be paid by others or did you think there's a
fairy godmother who waves a magic wand over all your pollution?

According to various studies including ones done by UMich and the
Lawrence Berkeley National Labs, SUVs are the most dangerous vehicles on
the road. The SUV rollover problem...

<http://www.suvrollovernews.com/>

.... not only causes higher insurance rates both for SUVs and for those
they involve in their rollovers and other accidents but they endanger
other vehicles on the road because they roll over so much. This
represents actual monetary costs as well has human life and health.
Furthermore, as the accident rate goes up, insurance rates rise in
general.

The bumper height on these vehicles is dangerous to other vehicles and
their occupants.

SUVs are involved in the vast majority of rollover accidents and those
accidents have increased by over 200% in the last decade alone according
to data from the NHTSA. Traffic deaths, once nearly stabilized, have
risen steadily with the increase of SUVs on the road. Contrary to
opinion popular with SUV owners, these vehicles are not safer for either
them or other drivers and pedestrians.

A majority of tots run over by vehicles backing up are killed by SUVs
and other vehicles in the light truck class. This type of accident has
increased with so many people driving SUVs and, now, more than one child
a week is killed in this manner.

Your vehicle and other SUVs don't have to pay the federal and very
substantial gas guzzler tax. And that is because when the law was
passed in 1978, few of the vehicles were in the light truck class. And
now the majority of vehicles fall in that class but the loophole has not
been closed.

There is a lot more. The human and monetary cost to society for all
this SUV foolishness is incalculable.

...If we use more fuel for a given mile of travel
we are paying more taxes per mile traveled since it's the fuel that is
taxed. Pickups and SUVs also do not put any more wear on roads than cars
do. There isn't any measurable difference in road wear until you get up
to a lot bigger vehicles like 80,000# semis.

That is absolutely false. Weight matters by any qualified statistic.
Why do you think there are weight limits on various road surfaces?
You're in denial.

I can understand why you'd feel a bit defensive. Fortunately, more and
more people are beginning to recognize how small the planet really is
and that those plastic peanuts that accidently flew out of that box you
got last Christmas eventually ended up in the ocean and then were
finally found in the gut of some dead Albatross chick on an island you
never heard of. Why should any of us care indeed?

I hate those damn peanuts too. I much prefer the pillow pack cushions.
They provide better cushioning, are less likely to shift and leave the
packaged item unprotected, don't make a mess and some can be deflated
for easy storage for future reuse.

Once again, you miss the point which is that our choices affect others.
The choice of a truck or SUV affects everyone else. We can ignore facts
and pretend that it's not true. We can be a cantankerous boors and say
"To hell with everyone else; only my family is important". Or we can
take an honest look at what is happening around us and act in a manner
that is respectful of others and our surroundings.

Millions of Americans drive gas-guzzling SUVs they don't even *slightly*
need. Most American families that own vehicles also have 2 or more of
them now. And somewhere between the *extreme* convenience of an SUV and
the other extreme of having to walk everywhere is a more reasonable,
rational, respectful-of-one's-neighbors way of deciding how we should
navigate our local communities going about our daily business. The
human psyche needs to progress beyond the "my spear is bigger than
yours" stage. We can all be better than that. If you complain to your
neighbor for leaving his trash cans out all week and he says that by
putting yours away you are just making an "eco-social" statement, I
doubt that would sit well with you. What we do affects others whether
you accept that or not.

We don't actually use trash cans here...

Again, trash cans aren't the point.

[...]

...I also don't live in some hideous "gated community" or uppity
development where houses are 3.5" apart, have one square foot of lawn
and people have nothing better to do than bitch about what everyone
else is doing and try to buy a more expensive car.

While this also has nothing to do with the topic at hand, it does, I
suppose, serve to expose some of your underlying fixations and
prejudices. We're not talking about what "everyone else is doing";
we're talking about how so many light trucks on the road are a detriment
to the community as a whole. And while you can attach pejorative labels
to anyone who cares, I'm still betting that you have no problem
complaining when it's your ox in the ditch. When others complain, they
are meddlers but when you have a concern, a bullhorn isn't loud enough
to spread your message.

Somehow, somewhere along the line you and most SUV drivers have missed
lessons in ethics, reciprocity and the golden rule. It's a one way
street with the benefits accruing to the SUV group but depleting others.
It's a double standard and why? Because some people, whether poorly
raised or poorly educated, harbor the notion that whatever they can get
away with is just fine. And if you hold onto the notion that the only
ones hurt are "uppity" busybodies from "gated communities", then I guess
we have to think you're like Robin Hood, taking from the rich and giving
to the poor--- a Marvel Super-Hero. Quick! Somebody get this guy to
the White House for his Medal of Freedom.

Emma
.

Relevant Pages

  • The Post-SUV world -- its here
    ... that high gas prices have caused their sales of SUVs and full-size ... pickups to plummet by as much as 50 percent compared with a year ago. ... With big-box vehicles waddling off into the sunset, ... 500 burned by the average car. ...
    (alt.politics)
  • Re: Meat Prices Going Up
    ... Trucks, SUVs, vans, minivans, whatever your nomenclature, are ... Look at the parking lots and vehicles parked on the streets. ... You will see very few vehicles in the light truck or truck category. ... Someone turning over a car every couple years consumes far more ...
    (rec.food.cooking)
  • Re: OT SUVs
    ... to roll, the typical two wheel drive rear wheel drive vehicle will roll ... SUVs a few short years ago, ... vehicles and people, and perhaps an escape from urban life. ... 2,000 deaths a year in vehicles they strike. ...
    (rec.food.cooking)
  • Re: OT SUVs
    ... to roll, the typical two wheel drive rear wheel drive vehicle will roll ... SUVs a few short years ago, ... vehicles and people, and perhaps an escape from urban life. ... 2,000 deaths a year in vehicles they strike. ...
    (rec.food.cooking)
  • Re: Dark Side of Hybrid Vehicles
    ... SUVs, for example, ... >>> should be classified as trucks, ... > other reasons. ... vehicles have slid/been driven off the road while driving to work. ...
    (rec.autos.makers.honda)