Re: A greenhorn starts a green horse.

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 14:02:16 GMT,
"jsaranac" <jsalacious@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

[Brian]
>>>> I do not subscribe to the heroic school of breaking horses - I am too
>>>> old for that game. And I am not interested in causing distress, to a
>>>> horse, or any other thing. Interesting that you wouldn't mount any
>>>> horse younger than three. Don't they race two year olds?

[Jane]
>>>Yes, frequently prior to their crippling and use as dog food.
>>>
>>>J.
>>>

[Brian]
>> Now that's interesting. "Frequently" suggests a proportion of perhaps
>> 20%.
>

[Jane]
>To whom?
>
///
[Brian]
>> Is that the proportion of two year olds that is slaughtered for
>> running injuries in their first racing year?

[Jane]
>Why do you impose the arbitrary "in their first racing year?" How about
>they race as two year olds, become worthless lame and some time later in
>their years are slaughtered for dog food?
>
>And saying "prior to injury and slaughter" does not necessarily require both
>injury and slaughter. It may mean either or, as in "prior to injury and
>prior to slaughter."
>
[Brian]
>> It does indeed sound disgraceful!
>

[Jane]
>Glad you noticed.

[Brian]
>> Or was this a sweeping generalization of the kind that does not hold
>> water when checked? (And you will realize, I do check!)
>

[Jane]
>No, it's a sweeping generalization that is born of common sense.
>
>Please don't take my word for it. I am sure that if you check, you'll be
>educated such that if you are a humane person, you'll not try to ride a two
>year old horse any more than you'd want an an eight year old working in a
>factory.
>
>J.
>

Forgive me if I characterize your response given in part above as
"bluster".
For example, when I comment that your adverb "frequently" suggests 20%
and you respond with "To whom? ", who on Earth do you think it is
that wrote the suggestion, counsellor?

Anyway, if you would rather deal with facts than opinions, take a look
at an outfit that makes a living from assessing risk to horses.

[Major Insurer] - All Risk Mortality Rates by Breed & Use
Use / % Stallion/Mare Gelding

Cutting 3.25 3.25 71% 64%
Breeding Stallions 3.35 N/A 73% -
Hunter/Jumper < 4' 3.40 3.40 74% 67%
Dressage 3.40 3.40
Performance 3.40 3.40
Reining, Roping 3.40 3.40
Roping 3.40 3.40
Show, Pleasure 3.50 3.50 77% 69%
Driving 3.50 3.50
Race - Steeplechase Limited 3.50 3.50
Yearlings - Not in race training 3.50 N/A -
Eventing - Training 3.75 3.75 82% 74%
Eventing - Prelim+ 3.75 3.75
Barrel Racing / Pole Bending 3.75 3.75
Breeding Mares 3.95 N/A 86% -
Jumper 4'+ 4.35 4.35 95% 86%
Race - Trotter/Pacer < 6 years 4.40 6.00 96% 118%

Race - Trotter/Pacer 6 years 5.00 6.75 109% 133%
Endurance 5.00 5.00
98%
Yearlings - In race training 5.00 N/A -
Race - Trotter/Pacer 7 years 5.65 7.50 124% 148%
Polo Horses 5.75 5.75 126% 113%
Race - Trotter/Pacer > 7 years 6.50 9.00 142% 177%
Rodeo 6.75 6.75 148%
133%
Walking Horses 6.75 6.75
Race - Flat Track 7.00 8.50 153% 167%
Race - Steeplechase 8.50 8.50 186%

totals: whole horse 123.35/27 = 4.57 = 100%
gelding = 116.85 / 23 = 5.08 = 100%


Some notes on this table.
There are four columns of percentages after the descriptor.
The first two are provided by the insurer.

The last two percents on each line were produced by me,
in this way.
I found the mean of the risk for whole horses and for geldings
seperately. (I was surprised to find that geldings are at overall
higher risk than whole horses.) Taking the mean for each as
100% I then calculated the relative risk for each kind of service.
Example: cutting horses and breeding stallions are at lowest risk -
and steeplechasers are at highest risk (Trotter/pacer race geldings
are up there too.)

Now some conclusions:

1) Show/pleasure horses are where most notes on this group seem to
focus - hunters and jumpers under four years old are shown to provide
an appreciably lower risk than the pleasure/show group, while the 4+
year old jumper hunters are at appreciably higher risk.

2) Yearlings in RACE training are insurable as lower risks than for
example polo ponies. Yearlings NOT in race training are at the same
risk as the pleasure/show group at large.

I take it on this basis that applying a 25 lb load to a saddled green
gelding at 21 months is unlikely to be a risk factor.

Please feel free to adduce contrary statistics - if you can!

Sincerely

Brian Whatcott
p.s. The insurer would be pronounced with the same aspirate H
which became familiar to Eliza Dolittle - so I am sure
you can guess who it is.
.