Re: Aging In Bulk Vs Aging In Bottle

Hi Patrick, thanks for replying. I am satisfied the glass vs plastic
argument has been done to death. What I am talking about is the
seemingly huge disparity between what home winemakers (creating fruit
wines) are told to do by wineshops in the UK and elsewhere.

Shop owners here tell me not to bother with bulk aging but to let the
wine age and mature in bottle - avoid letting it settle out naturally,
but use finings to overcome the problems 'inherent' in plastic
containers by removing the need for longterm storage therein. This
doesn't have a financial root to me since the wines being made are not
from commercial kits, but from scratch.

One shop owner admitted to me that glass carboys were starting to
enjoy a bit of a renaissance in the UK as people followed Canadian
kitmakers instructions and went to secondary in glass rather than
plastic. This situation befuddled him as he couldn't see any reason
to go that route... My real question is why would this be I guess...

Jim

On Sep 1, 4:58 am, "patrick mcdonald"
<partick.mcdon...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
FWIW, you can find your answers by Googling the archives, but since I have
10 minutes, here goes...

Ageing in plastic cannot be recommended above ageing in glass due to the
density differences between the two. Basically, glass breaks easily because
it is a very dense structure whereas plastic less readily because it is a
less dense structure. Thus, glass is less impervious to infiltration as
compared to plastics. Many people can find many flaws in my allusion, but it
does break it down to straight-forward terms.

I also imagine you speak of wine kits, which is the first batch of wine I
made. What I found particularly disconcerting was the use of potassium
sorbate to inhibit the yeast. I found this ingredient readily identifiable
in my kit wine and wished I hadn't used it. When I thought all those
Christmas gifts had been dumped due to poor quality, my father produced his
bottle some 2+ years later and I must say it was a very nice kit wine. The
pot. sorbate was gone and it was a decent kit Cab. Sauv.I've since
recommended that my friends starting on kits skip the pot. sorbate and bulk
age for a period up to 6 months, believing that a juice would stabilize much
more readily than the relatively protein-saturated goo of fresh grapes.

In my opinion, the above paragraph throws doubt to the kit maker's claim (in
the US) that kit wines be drunk within 1 year. Read carefully the
instructions and total time to drinking in kits versus fresh grapes or juice
and notice the disparity. Think anyone writing the instructions has a
commercial interest in mind?

Age in bulk - there is less O2 exposure per given volume of wine versus that
in a bottle, assuming that corks "breathe". Let's PLEASE not have that
debate again, for the 187th time!

Patrick

"jim" <merryd...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:1188600708.987737.79640@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I live in the UK and current recommendation from the home winemaking
stores in the middle of England (including some commercial wineries I
know) is to ferment then use finings and bottle as soon after that as
possible. To back that up, glass carboys are fairly scarce compared
to plastic carboys and buckets. When I have asked why that is I have
been asked why I would want the wine to stay in glass to age rather
than in the bottle and told it is unnecessary and not 'particularly'
beneficial.

Now I tend to poo-poo this and go with the advice of this group, the
rest of the world (and CJJ Berry's sage old advice) to at least settle
the wine out naturally (if at all possible) before bottling and
maturing therein. I haven't enough personal experience to back this
up, it just seems logical to avoid fining unless absolutely necessary.

I know the UK isn't widely considered to be a world-class winemaking
region (though I gather we have, at least once, come first in a world
winemaking category). I can't help wondering:

# Why is the advice given here so different to that which (I gather)
is given everywhere else in the world?

# Why would people in the UK be fixating on a fast and less crafted
winemaking experience if that is the case? Perhaps the market for
home winemaking is declining here and new winemakers are only
attracted to make their own if it is very quick and easy?

# How much difference is there in the end product?

# Has anyone done side by side tests to determine the difference in
result between wines which have been fermented, fined and bottle aged
vs wines which have been gravity cleared, bulk aged and then bottled?

I would be interested to hear considered opinion or fact on this...
Best wishes to all of you at this most productive time of year!

Jim


.

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