Re: OT: Insight from a *real* coal miner was Re: THEY FOUND THE MINERS ALIVE!! ERROR MADE!!


Thank you from the bottom of my heart!

Cheryl


On 1/6/06 9:06 PM, in article v03ur1hk5bevsno8v32klms3egg1167vso@xxxxxxx,
"japacah@xxxxxxxxx" <japacah@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> I haven't read RCTN for several days, so I'm jumping in a little late.
> Also, I'm responding to several posts, but I haven't figured how to
> quote more than one post, so I'm paraphrasing the rest - I'm *sure*
> someone will let me know if I get it wrong :-). And finally, this is
> going to be really long.
>
> I have a BS in Mining Engineering, and I've worked for several years
> for a large company based in Pittsburgh. Like many mining engineers
> straight out of college, I was hired as an underground foreman in
> order to learn the business. After a few years, I decided that
> production management wasn't challenging enough, so I moved into mine
> safety, and in 2005 I came full circle back to engineering. I'm now
> based at a mine in north-central WV that employs about 500 people,
> close to where the Sago mine disaster ocurred. I rarely go
> underground anymore, & I kind of miss it.
>
> Let me state unequivocably that I *love* my job, and I chose to move
> here (away from family) because of it. It's pretty dirty sometimes,
> but it's the coolest thing in the world to stand in a newly-mined
> place & know that you're the first living thing that's been there for
> 250 million years. And the people are the best: the cameraderie that
> exists among coal miners is very real. At the mine where I was a
> foreman for so long, I often joked that I had 400 brothers: some were
> older protective brothers, and some were younger annoying brothers,
> but we were family nonetheless. There's an even stronger bond between
> the few women in the industry.
>
> On 1/4 Gillian remarked that $50,000 was a low-middle class income. It
> may be in her neck of the woods, but that's a pretty decent living
> hereabouts. And that's the low end of the spectrum - depending on who
> you work for & what your job is, you can easily make $70,000+. And
> that's *without* a college degree or specialized skills. For
> comparison purposes, a colleague checked an online cost of living
> calculator a few years ago & found he'd have to make $103,000 in DC to
> equate to his $72,000 here.
>
> On 1/4 Maureen stated "Shut down the mines for God's sake," and
> Stitcher wrote "Close the mines down says I...What is the coal used
> for anyway." Um, do you know where your electricity comes from? No,
> not the wall. Before you advocate getting rid of something, you'd
> better educate yourself about what it's used for. As someone else
> pointed out, about 50% of the US's energy comes from coal. And I'm
> willing to bet that Canada also depends heavily on coal. No mining is
> not an answer, unless of course those of you who don't know how coal's
> used are willing to give up all your electric toys.
>
> On 1/5, Jangchub mentioned OHSA standards, and on 1/4, she mentioned
> "hundreds of safety infractions" against Sago. First of all, the
> mining industry does not fall under OSHA's jurisdiction. It is such a
> specialized industry that around 1970 the federal government created
> the Mine Safety & Health Agency (MSHA) specifically to target mining.
> The enforcement activity under MSHA is *much* stricter than OSHA, and
> accounts in part for the high number of violations that you typically
> see associated with coal mining.
>
> Let me explain: those of you who have dealt with OSHA know that,
> typically, most businesses can expect one inspection every 2 or 3
> years. MSHA inspectors, however, show up almost *every day*, often 2
> or 3 inspectors at a time. They can (and do) appear at any time of day
> or night, weekday or weekend, and they can look at anything they want.
> Obviously, the more people you have looking, the more you're going to
> find. Here's a good analogy: let's say that you're a good
> housekeeper, and after cleaning house, you have 3 people show up, &
> spend a few hours looking anywhere they want. What's the likelihood
> that they'll still find some dust you missed *somewhere* - pretty
> good. What if they show up 5 days a week?
>
> On top of that, the dynamic nature of mining means that even the very
> best mines have violation histories. We don't just stay in one place,
> we are constantly finishing one area, and moving to another. So now
> it's like those cleanliness inspectors are showing up at your house
> while you're in the midst of adding one room on & tearing down
> another. Sawdust on the carpet? You're busted, and just because you
> just finished sawing & haven't even had time to vacuum is no excuse.
>
> I'm not saying that there weren't some serious deficiencies at Sago -
> no one knows at this point. All I'm trying to emphasize is that
> violation history isn't a good indicator of how dangerous a mine is.
> There's a world of difference between writing a violation & making the
> mine a safer place. Overall, I feel much safer underground than I do
> driving. And, by the way, it's fairly well known in the industry that
> an inspector who writes lots of violations gets more pats on the back
> from the boss than one who doesn't. Not that all of them are
> personally motivated, but it happens.
>
> Jangchub made 2 comments implying that mining safety regs under the
> Bush administration are more lax. On 1/4 she posted that "with all the
> restrictions loosed by our illustrious current administation, the
> protection for safe work place has just about disappeared for these
> miners" and on 1/6 "...many industrial companies have been given a
> wave & have been de-regulated..." I think you must be confusing
> safety with environmental regs. Although many industries lump safety
> & environmental together, they are two very different things. MSHA
> has, in fact, tightened many of the existing regs & introduced new
> ones in the past few years.
>
> And Miryam, thank you for voicing the suggestion that those who think
> coal's so awful ought to give up their electricity. Most people have
> *absolutely* no clue where the raw materials in the products they use
> every day come from. Bottom line is, you either mine it or you grow
> it. Period. Next time you pick up a bottle of shampoo, a bag of cat
> litter, a plastic container, a box of crayons, anything really - ask
> yourself "What's really in this & where does it come from?" I was
> appalled a couple of years ago when the CEO of Tiffany's got involved
> with some anti-gold mining activists. Helllloooo?
>
> A few other comments, then I'll get off my soapbox. The US government
> maintains a list of minerals that are considered strategically
> critical to maintain our way of life. Many folks have never heard of
> most of them, but we'd be in a world of hurt without them. The worst
> part is that a high percentage of them are imported, and not
> necessarily from friendly or reliable countries. We could find
> ourselves in the same bind with, say, vanadium, that we're in with
> oil.
>
> Finally, there is a serious misconception even today about the nature
> of coal mining. A lot of people still think we use picks & shovels in
> 3' high coal seams. The truth is, it's a highly mechanized industry
> utilizing state-of-the-art equipment. We have comuter terminals
> underground & high speed internet access. Although there are still a
> few of what we call "punch mines" like Sago around (punch a hole in
> the ground & mine a little coal), the most productive mines range from
> 7' of height up to 15 or 20'. They're not bad at all, just so
> different that it's impossible to really tell someone what it's like.
> I tend to think of it as a natural environment, like working out in
> the woods.
>
> *Really* finally, I want to add that my company sent 8 mine rescue
> teams to Sago. The team from my mine was the first one in and
> happened to have the sad job of bringing the bodies out. All of our
> guys worked as hard as they possibly could to try to stave off
> disaster, and although I fervently wish the outcome had been
> different, I'm very proud of all of them.
>
> OK, I think I've run out of thoughts for now.
>
> Jacqueline in Carmichaels, PA, soon to be in Fairmont WV
> WIPs: Minerva by The Goode Huswife & Max's Moon by Cross My Heart.
>
>

.

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