Re: ISO compliance

Mark writes "<<< lotsa snippage of gross amounts of ISO BS >>>

Yeah I have been involved in companies that went for ISO certification. ISO
is the greatest splash of hog wash ever inflicted on American companies by
the Europeans.
It is much akin to the military expression, "The incompetent leading the
unwilling to do the unnecessary". The only ones profiting from ISO are the
ISO certification agencies.

Another rip off of American business is the long lived Underwriter's
Laboratories. I was involved with various certifications on my last job,
especially FCC type acceptance of RF products. I got a price package once
for UL. Unfrigginbelieveable! You pay for the UL testing and then you
commit to have inspectors visit the manufacturing premises at periodic
intervals for retesting. Kind size rip if ever there was one!. Not far
behind are the test houses that test products leading to FCC Type Acceptance
Certification.

Bob Swinney


"Mark Fields" <mark_no_spam_f@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:mvOHg.71310$vl5.20107@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I have been in manufacturing for 30 years and involved in ISO 9000
registrations since 1992.

Your ISO program is only as good as how you use it.

No where in the ISO standard does it state third party registration is
required. If someone can show me the clause that states it please post it
here.

There is a lot of BS that goes on, auditors who throw their weight around
and run personal agendas. If that happens, the client company should
always remember, they are the client and the third party registrar is
their supplier.

Some companies benefit from ISO registration and some don't. The fact is
that it depends on whether the to person in the company wants to use this
tool.

The ISO series of standards related to ISO 9000 came about because the
governing body of standards making boards in Europe recognized a need and
they wrote a standard around it. A lot of people don't realize there are
thousands of ISO standards, relating to everything from a quality
management system (i.e. the ISO 9000 series) to ISO standards for pig
irons, steels, concrete, test methods, etc. - you name it there is a
standard for it.

Long before the ISO committe released the first ISO 9000 standards in
1987, there were standards for quality systems. In the United States,
these were MIL standards or SAE or other organization's stadards to guide
a company in developing a quality management system. More recently people
have come to understand that this should be called a "management system"
and don't put "quality" in front of it.

In fact, all third party registrars, will REQUIRE as part of the contract
with their client companies that they MAY NOT put the registration symbol
on their PRODUCTS.

To have an ISO registered quality system (by a third party registrar)
saves your customers money. The money is saved because they don't have to
do an audit of your company in advance. You are paying for the audit for
them by using an independent third party. Even if your customer performs
an audit themselves, in advance of giving you an order, will not guarantee
your products will be flawless or even conform to the requirements. But -
it does give them some idea about your business.

Likewise if your company is selling to another company, you can run a Dunn
and Bradstreet report, to see if they will pay you on time, but it does
not guarantee you that they will pay you in time, only that in the past
they have tended to pay on time.

OF COURSE you CAN convince your customer you are ISO compliant. Just
educate yourself about the standard, put a system in place, and be willing
and ready to show them your system.

Being ISO compliant is no different than the way business has always been
conducted --- unless (no insult is directed at your company by saying
this) a company normally get new clients by taking them out to lunch,
buying them baseball tickets, BS'ing them about it's capabilities,
ignoring their purchase order requirements, accepting orders it cannot
deliver, etc.

ISO companies also make mistakes every day but if they really have a
system in place it detect and correct these conditions, and anticipates
and continuously improves. These are the hallmarks of a company that
continues to make profits in all business conditions.

Mark







"John Husvar" <jhusvar@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:jhusvar-F62DE1.20482225082006@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
In article
<1vKHg.696207$Fs1.503288@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
"Wayne Lundberg" <Waynelund@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I hear you!

Wayne

"Grant Erwin" <grant@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:12eus4dpgjtr41c@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Jim Stewart wrote:

Wayne Lundberg wrote:

Any small shop out there doing ISO9002 compliance? Not
registration,
just
able to convince customers you are compliant?


Can't help you.

Seems unlikely that just claiming compliance
would get you anything. The people that are
into ISO9002 are into paper trails and audits
and verification and it's highly doubtful they
would just take your word on compliance.

ISO certification boils down to documenting every single procedure you
use
in
your business. How exactly do you restock welding wire? How exactly do
you
specify to the customer what work you will perform? I've been through
this
on
the corporate level and it is truly a bunch of BS. The only more BS
thing
is if
companies insist upon their vendors being certified.

I left all that behind when I walked away from my engineering
profession.
Now
that I'm a humble self-employed fabricator, I get sketches in pencil
on
cedar
shakes, I get heavily accented verbal descriptions of parts on lousy
cellphone
connections, I don't document anything and I'm about 1000 times
happier.

GWE

ISO compliance doesn't seem to be related to quality at all AFAICS: You
can build crap products and still be in ISO compliance so long as you
build well-documented production and procedurally documented crap
products.

--
Bring back, Oh bring back
Oh, bring back that old continuity.
Bring back, oh, bring back
Oh, bring back Clerk Maxwell to me.




.

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