Re: OT - Preconceptions

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 09:38:32 -0700, Larry Jaques
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 09:38:44 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
<gunner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> quickly quoth:

Indeed. Ive not put my stamp of approval on torture, far from it..its a
tool of expediency and last resort. But properly done..it can be very
effective. As can the simple threat of it. Or witnessing it.
Particularly the more gruesome varieties.

"Rat Hotel" is devilish, ingenious and very very effective.

Is that like the bag with the rat in it they put over Braddock's head
in Missing In Action, Part-? ? (He bit the rat in half after trading
bites with it. ;) Ah, the Norris movies were great.

Similar. You take a steel bucket.. or cut the bottom off a square steel
can, and punch some holes in the rim so you can attach some steel wire
to it. Then you place the open end of the container over the subjects
stomach, then slip in 3-5 rats, then wrap the wire around the torso so
the container is held securely and cannot be dislodge during
considerable jerking and bucking.

During questioning..if the subject doesnt cooperate..you very slowly
prepare the makings of a small fire on the top of the container, while
explaining that when the fire is lit, the rats will attempt to escape
the heat at the top of their prison..and dig their way out through the
soft medium at the bottom of the container.

During this period, the rats of course are scampering around inside the
container, with the skin as the floor, dozens of little sharp nails
digging in as they investigate their container..dragging wiskers,
perhaps a curious nip or two here and there...

The questioner of course, during the interview keeps a very matter of
fact demeanor, perhaps a bit of regret in tone, while asking the
pertinant questions in various different ways.

Having additional subjects, bound securely and gagged, out of sight of
the first subject, but close enough to witness the proceedure is of
value, as the first subjects "interview" adds to the horror and sense of
helplessness, warming them up so to speak...priming their pumps.

If the subject remains recaltriant..one simply lights the fire on the
top of the can, slowly and keeping it as small as possible at first,
while expressing regret, but continuing to ask the pertinant questions
in various ways. If the subject remains recaltriant..one simply steps
back and lets the rats escape through the body of the now wildly bucking
and screaming subject. When the screaming stops..one removes the
bucket..brings out another group of rats, and performs the operation on
the next subject, who has witnessed the first subjects interogation...
and can see the still often twitching ravaged body of the first subject.

Repeat as necessary.

Now if you need the subject in an undamaged condition (physically
anyways)..the Submarine can be effective.

Bind the subject to a long plank, face up, with the plank over a stout
saw horse, head down, feet upwards. Slide a wash tub or other large
container of water under the subjects head, and start asking questions.
If the subject proves recaltriant..slowly tilt the board downwards while
shouting Dive Dive Dive! and submerge the subjects head underwater.
Leave it underwater for a minute or so, then raise him back up suddenly,
let him gasp for breath, then start interviewing again. At the first
sign of a lie or misdirection..shout Dive Dive Dive! and repeat the
submersion, perhaps for a bit longer. Repeat as necessary. This
treatment will not drown the subject, as he is unable to asperate enough
water to fill the lungs. It only makes him feel that he is
drowning..which is a very nasty thing. On the other hand..you can simply
keep him under for 5 minutes, during which he will have suffocated.
Some care in the method used in binding will show few marks on the
corpse.

If no large container is available..placing a thick terrycloth type
towel over the subjects face, then slowly pouring water from a bucket or
hose over the towel will create much the same effect. It will be
noticable when the mouth opens to gasp for air, so the water is directed
to the depression formed.

(The Japanse of the WW2 era were particularly fond of this method. They
also used a variation for punishment/execution. They would raise the
head, and pour in the water. When the stomach was filled and
extended..they would beat the subjects stomach with rods or sticks,
until the subject..burst.)

A skilled interogator will "read" the subject and use the appropriate
pyschological tricks, from "a nice guy who hates to have to do this but
has to" through the "boy this is gonna be fun" sadist, to the
emotionless autonotom methodical butcher persona.

Most interviews of this type rely heavily on pyschological technique,
reinforced by pain or fear/panic.

One simply doesnt do brute force stuff like stuffing burning bamboo
under the fingernails etc..unless one is really rushed or more than a
little sadistic. A perfect example would be using a cordless drill on
joints, through the kneecaps etc. It tends to use up the subject rather
quickly. Good torturers are never sadists. Sadists enjoy their work way
too much and tend to be less then dispassionate about the business and
dont do a good job of interogation, focusing more on the sadism aspect
then getting the job done.

There are a host of other ways that are effective. However as Im sure
you know..generally such methods are used to confirm data you already
know..to fill in the details, so its much easier to seperate the wheat
from the chaff that spews out during the interview.

A nasty business..but it does indeed work in most cases.

One that Im sure everyone has heard about is the Long Step, involving a
hovering helicopter and a group of bound and blind folded subjects.
Depending on the height the helicopter is hovering at..it may or may not
be a bit hard on the subjects, if that is of a concern. When one hears
his comrades being tossed out the open door of a helicopter, screaming
and thrashing..the pyschological effect is the same if the helicopter is
hovering 10 feet over a cargo net, or at angels 5 over the jungle.

Now torture for punishment..thats a far different story.

Gunner


Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,
.

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