Re: Mills, etc (was Heating with Wood)

Don,

You've made my point... thank you. My point was that the log construction
yields higher heat loss and therefore higher expenses IF AND WHEN THE ONLY
DIFFERENCE IS IN THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE WALLS. I haven't seen any posts
that indicate otherwise... except for those wishful thinkers who have log
homes. If that position offends you or is considered arrogant, that's just
too bad.

I'm sure you will now also admonish Steve Spence for his demeaning attitude
re: this subject.

George Willer

"Don Foreman" <dforeman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:2rfsi153asqdujjvg951ol9e6hq1tedlqt@xxxxxxxxxx
> On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 23:04:44 -0400, "George Willer" <gwill@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
>>Sorry you perceive knowledge as arrogance, but I'm not surprised. After
>>all, you've demonstrated a poor ability for understanding. The laws of
>>physics are there for all who are willing to see. Try it some time.
>>
>>George Willer
>
> This disinterested observer doesn't perceive knowledge as arrogance,
> George, but I do find your posts to be arrogant. Would you display
> such execrable manners in a face-to-face meeting? Maligning another
> of different opinion does not reinforce yours for me; it weakens
> it. It's a ploy often used to convince others of a position that
> cannot be proved, as in politics and religion -- which are a hell of
> a long ways from physics.
>
> Applying laws of physics to a grossly-simplified model is
> pseudoscience at best and sophistry if actual evidence indicates
> otherwise. That seems to be the case here. No engineer with any
> integrity ignores evidence that goes counter to his theory, for that's
> how significant discoveries are sometimes made -- and, more often,
> errors found in the evidence or the theory.
>
> We don't even have a grossly-simplifed model here: no comparative
> wall areas, roof areas, data on windows and doors, infiltration rates,
> insolation rate, siting info as it relates to wind exposure, and so
> on. ASHRAE data and mfrs specs for R value of insulation is useful
> assuming "all other things are equal". There are a whole bunch of
> "other things" that will not be equal between any two structures of
> whatever construction.
>
> No evidence (or even opinion) has been offered as to how offered
> evidence (observed heating cost) was flawed, or that the offeror is
> unable to tally up his bills or simply a liar.
>
> The R-value the mfr specified for particular insulation is a relevant
> parameter, but never the only parameter and may not even be the
> dominant parameter. (See other post) Honeywell researchers found
> that a great many variables had to be dealt with and accounted for to
> achieve a computer model that would produce results resembling actual
> test cases -- data carefully taken by trained technicians and
> engineers in actual residential structures of a wide variety of design
> and construction. It took several highly-competent engineers and
> scientists several years to get it right. ASHRAE didn't have
> anything remotely close to it, still doesn't AFAIK but I've been away
> from it for a few years.
>
> Steve, let this guy go. You will never convince him and there's no
> need to do so. Thank you for your posts. I'll admit that I would
> have thought that log construction might be colder than conventional,
> but I'd now reserve judgement until I'd talked to some folks who had
> actual living experience and some heating bills I might look at.
>
> I'll note that there are plenty of log homes being built in northern
> MN by people who can afford any form of construction they want. One
> that I know of is being built by an engineer and founder of a
> sucessful firm that does energy consulting.
> It's a upscale place on Leech Lake. I'll bet he'll be bringing lots
> of clients and customers there for marketing and tax writeoff.
>
>


.

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