Re: I would like to make my own Sterling and Argentium Metals... Is this possible ?

On Mar 4, 1:54=A0am, "Peter W.. Rowe,"
<rec.crafts.jewe...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 23:00:31 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Jman

<mooglie...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Looks like a graphite mould. =A0I suppose the graphite would help with
the oxidization wouldn't it ?

Ingots, 101

Graphite molds are usually "open faced". =A0They produce a shape like a li=
ttle
loaf of bread, or a similar block with a convex irregular top surface. =A0=
That's
quite difficult to directly turn into *** metal. =A0Fine for making litt=
le
ingots which you just wish to store or something, but impractical for maki=
ng
wire or *** metal.

Also, pouring into a graphite mold, especially the small ones, is hard to =
get
uniform metal because the graphite is an extraordinarily good heat sink. =
=A0The
metal freezes almost on contact with it. =A0The more commonly used cast ir=
on or
steel molds don't chill the metal so fast, so you get a more even pour. =
=A0They
are normally used with a film of soot or oil, both of which make the surfa=
ce
"reducing" and non-stick in nature, so the metal is not oxidized by contac=
t with
the mold. =A0Even without treatment, any mold surface like this will chill=
the
metal quickly enough, as well as not allowing oxygen to contact the surfac=
e
where it touches the mold, so oxidation next to the mold isn't an issue. =
=A0Ingots
poured into steel molds, like those poured into graphite ones, often come =
out
bright and clean. =A0The main advantage to the graphite molds is that meta=
l
doesn't stick at all, and they require no pretreatment.

Wire is commonly made by pouring a long rod shaped ingot, rolling this thr=
ough
grooved rollers to reduce it's size down to a manageable size, and then fu=
rther
shaped and reduced by pulling through drawplates. =A0As Ted's post mention=
ed, if
you've got a big and powerful enough drawbench, you can eliminate the init=
ial
rolling stage for wire, but most people making wire start with a wire roll=
ing
mill. Either way, the ingot to use needs to start out as a long rod shape.=
There
are two types of ingot mold used. =A0For small ingots, one can get a steel=

vertical mold that amounts to two plates clamped together with holes drill=
ed
down along the boundry between them. =A0metal poured into the holes can be=
removed
when the plates are seperated, yielding a round bar. =A0The same molds als=
o often
have another side which can produce a flat sided plate. =A0That type of mo=
ld,
called a sliding ingot mold because the width is adjustable, can be set so=
the
flat plate is the same width as it's depth, effectively yeilding a bar wit=
h
square cross section. =A0 This too can be worked into wire. =A0In both cas=
es, these
ingots are limited in legth to the height of the ingot mold, which is usua=
lly
four or five inches or so, meaning it's good for small ingots. =A0For long=
er bars,
one uses an open faced mold which amounts to a long milled groove in a ste=
el
bar. =A0Metal is poured into that groove, runs down it, and solidifies int=
o a long
bar shape. =A0These are less uniform than the first type, and can be a bit=
more
troublesome to roll or otherwise process into wire, especially with alloys=
like
silver where the top exposed surface of the bar during pouring is not only=

irregular in thickness, but often quite oxidized. =A0Still, it works.

*** metal, as suggested above, is made from flat sided ingots which are
usually made in a few inches wide or more, and equally long, or more, depe=
nding
on the size of the mold used. =A0The thickness of the plates in most small=
molds
comes in between an 1/8th of an inch to a 1/4 or an inch or so. =A0These f=
lat
ingots may be irregular at one end, where the mold was open, but the rest =
of the
surfaces are nice and uniform if the pour was good, and these are then rol=
led
down to flat *** in the rolling mill. =A0Without a rolling mill, you can=
do it
the old and slow way. =A0Forging with a hammer. =A0That takes skill, large=
muscles,
lots of endurance, and a lot of time. =A0But it does offer you the chance =
to make
*** metal that varies in thickness from one part of the *** to another=
.. =A0Not
normally useful for jewelry, it's valuable for some metalworkers, such as =
those
making medeival style armor...

Large industrial producers of *** metal don't use these small molds. =A0=
Instead,
they cast ingots that look more like the public image, ie a brick shaped b=
lock.
These then go to a milling machine where the raw faces of the ingot are mi=
lled
off to produce a machined square and flat sided uniform block of metal. =
=A0These
then can be rolled down into quite large sizes of *** metal in industria=
l
sized rolling mills.

The Rolling machine looks pretty expensive.

Yes, good ones are. =A0The cheapest little Chinese or Indian made ones sta=
rt
around 250 or so, but these are good only for light duty work. =A0If you'r=
e
planning on rolling a lot of *** metal, especially in anything other tha=
n
quite small sizes, expect to pay upwards of a thousand for a good, larger =
sized
flat rolling mill. =A0And by larger size, I mean four or five inches wide.=
=A0More
than that ups the price a lot more, very quickly. =A0about the widest avai=
lable
hand powered flat rolling mill I've seen is around six inches wide, and mo=
st
such mills are more like 5 inches wide. =A0For most craftspeople making je=
welry,
this is quite enough (even the much smaller ones are enough for most jewel=
ers).
But silversmiths often like to work with larger sheets of silver, up to a =
foot
wide, sometimes more. =A0That's pretty much the realm of the big industria=
l sized
power driven rolling mills. =A0And yes, those are costly. =A0Usually way o=
ut of the
reach of any individual craftsman, though sometimes you'll see a very used=
one
in surplus sales somewhere...

cheers

Peter

Great Information Peter, Thanks for that !

It's pretty obvious now that there is waaaay more to it than I
thought. I had no idea that getting a good enough *** to work with,
would be so troublesome, but I guess it stands to reason. I think I'd
honestly be better off just buying the *** that I needed and casting
odd ingots and such for more 'decorative purposes'. I must say,..I do
like the idea of pounding the living hell out of some silver
though.... I have a few large anvils and a bunch of metal working
hammers that would might be fun to work with in conjuction with the
Oxy/Ace, Oxy/Pro setup ! Perhaps I could mix it in with some other
metals (ingots) and produce some different colored metals to use with
some enamel..... (Hmmmm, the wheels they be turning..)

Thanks for all the great advice,

Cheers,

/FC..
.

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