Re: Collectors vs. Archaeologists

Something is a miss here.... SUBJECT LINE

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"Dave Welsh" <dwelsh46@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:aVUfl.43390$E%6.13276@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The Nickle Numismatic Collection of Greek coins [at the time, a very
important collection] was ruined by the idiocy of an ignorant and
incompetent female curator who sent them all out to be polished:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unidroit-L/message/647

There seems to be no limit to the incompetence, negligence and rapacity of
those put in charge of coins and other antiquities that have been placed in
the custody of source state academic institutions and cultural ministries.
Nepotism and favoritism are rife, and those appointees who do not endanger
artifacts they are responsible for by ignorance and stupidity, all too often
steal them.

If one had to select custodial candidates for artifacts based upon
knowledge, competence, honesty and reliablility, collectors would rank far
above most curators and officials in museums and cultural ministries. It is
only the best institutions whose standards exceed that which the typical
collector would provide.

Dave Welsh
dwelsh46@xxxxxxx



"note.boy" <note.boy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:zkBfl.67$zv7.14@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
A few years back a stupid female archaeologist on Time Team totally
ruined
a
Roman bronze coin by very harshly cleaning it.

I emailed Time Team suggesting that she is never allowed near a coin
again.
Billy


"Dave Welsh" <dwelsh46@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:yLrfl.44371$8a4.43651@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
James,

What you say is perhaps true of some archaeologists but I don't think
that
most in the discipline are really like that. It is the radical faction
that
is causing all these difficulties.

Before Colin Renfrew began his anticollecting campaign, collectors and
archaeologists were allies.

Dave Welsh
dwelsh46@xxxxxxx


"James Weston" <westonoil@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:glkk7r$pdn$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Dave, this is simply because archaeologists are thieves themselves and
many
hoard for their own private and hidden collections. Also, they don't
want
any "artifact wealth" in the hands of private citizens, hoarding it
all
for
their museums and themselves. They use the "loss of provenance and
loss
of
proper research" as an excuse toward this end.
This is also why entire nations are becoming involved in stealing
rightfully owned artifacts from private collections, even those that
are
over a century old. It is a greed grab.


"Dave Welsh" <dwelsh46@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:OOcfl.155159$H12.74681@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The stance radical archaeologists have taken indicates that they do
not
want
collectors to have access to any material excavated by
archaeologists.
Instead, they want it all kept as "public property" by institutions.
One
leading radical archaeologist has even gone so far as to advocate
prohibiting the sale of any artifact that has presumably been
excavated,
regardless of provenance.

It has been alleged that arguments advanced by radical
archaeologists
against continuation of the present free collecting environment are
nothing
more than a smoke screen cleverly put up to disguise their true
motive,
which is to secure exclusive control of access to all
"archaeological
source
material" including such common artifacts as ancient coins.
Moneta-L listreaders should be under no illusions as to the true
intentions
of these radical archaeologists. If they get their way, it will
eventually
become impossible to continue private collecting of ancient coins.
Paul
Barford comes to Moneta-L not to explore the truth as a bona fide
participant in our discussions, but as your enemy - a relentless
critic
of
ancient coin collecting who intends to prevent you from continuing
this
time-honored and socially beneficial activity. His true objective in
participating in discussions on Moneta-L is to manipulate them so as
to
advance that destructive goal.

The measures Paul Barford advocates would make it impossible for you
to
lawfully acquire any ancient artifact that does not have provenance
traceable to its find spot, with proof of licit export from its
state
of
origin or to its presence in a collection prior to 1970. Very few
ancient
coins have such a provenance. No one had ever thought it would be
important
to document provenance of such common objects, before radical
archaeologists
began lecturing collectors (and the public) about how we are causing
looting
of archaological sites by collecting unprovenanced artifacts. That
allegation is being presented to the public as though it were
scientifically
established truth, rather than what it really is - a mere hypothesis
for
which no verifiable evidence has ever been presented.

I do not believe that this allegation can be proven, and in my
opinion
the
real "moral lepers" in this controversy are those who seek to
deprive
collectors of their rights without demonstrating just cause.

Dave Welsh
www.classicalcoins.com
service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


-----Original Message-----
From: Moneta-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Moneta-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of romanpeddler
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 10:46 AM
To: Moneta-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Moneta-L] Collectors VS Arcfheologist

This is a very wide subject that is being covered and instead of
jumping
the
backs of collectors, why not go after the real bad guys. These would
be
the
government that creates the problem by their restrictions that
create
the
market for artifacts including coins. They have no way to catolog or
even
store correctly the thousands of coins that are being dug up. This
is
really
being done by collectors. It would seem that the loot would sit
untouched
and unresearched if not for collectors.

I take pride in my collection and have created my own private museum
which
most collectors do. Hats off to the Brits for common sense. They set
the
standard by which all other countries should follow in the handling
of
archeological finds. Most countries have no capital for the
preservation
of
these materials in these financial times. Why not have the
archeological
people oversee the digs, inspect the recovered artifacts and
separate
out
what is of importance and what is not. The government could then
either
release the unwanted artuifacts to the finders if privately found or
for
sale thru their agencies if covered by government authorized and
subsidized
digs.Both sides would then have access to materials that could be
legally
obtained.















.

Relevant Pages

  • Stupid Female Archaeologists [was Re: Collectors vs. Archaeologists]
    ... The Nickle Numismatic Collection of Greek coins [at the time, ... incompetent female curator who sent them all out to be polished: ... If one had to select custodial candidates for artifacts based upon ... What you say is perhaps true of some archaeologists but I don't think ...
    (rec.collecting.coins)
  • Re: Archaeologists are the real experts - arent they?
    ... however the last bit about collectors not being able to do ... >> archaeologists would be great, its a pity that most archaeology ... > assessment of the artifacts in his/her possession. ... I can't speak for collectors of anything other than coins. ...
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  • [Fwd: Possible Pre-Clovis Walker Site Interview]
    ... Possible Pre-Clovis Walker Site Interview ... Community learns more about Walker archaeological finds Will artifacts ... we were digging up a kid's fort," Mattson ... LLHS archaeologists and technicians dug at 40 ...
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  • Re: Archaeologists are the real experts - arent they?
    ... >> The premise or need for legislation is the view held by archaeologists ... >> Ancient coins, for example. ... >> collecting of anything excavated. ... reasonable for collectors to oppose that demand. ...
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  • Re: Archaeologists are the real experts - arent they?
    ... >>assemble collections not those who go prospecting for them, value coins ... that collectors are interested in coins that are to be found at a site that ... Archaeologists are welcome to the possession and control of all the sites ... does not own numismatics, and has no jurisdiction over that science. ...
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