Re: 1816 and 1822 Large Cents (better dates) at drastically reduced pricing!

On Nov 30, 5:45 am, "Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote:
"oly" <oly2...@xxxxxxx> wrote in message

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On Nov 29, 8:10 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote:
"oly" <oly2...@xxxxxxx> wrote in message

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On Nov 29, 7:43 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote:
"Bruce Remick" <rem...@xxxxxxx> wrote in message

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"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
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"Bruce Remick" <rem...@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"Ukraina Dvi" <sibirskmon...@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"Ira" <ir...@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
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i believe market grading definitely would come into play here. I
would
be quite amazed if a grade of MS-61/2 BN was not achieved. Yet
as
we
both know, the coin is what it is. At $575 for a real nice clean
original surfaced piece, I believe this to be an outstanding
value.

Ira

Yeah, I like it, even if Bruce sees a rub, and there probably is
one
on
the high point of the hair, but it is an attractive piece with
lovely
chocolate toning, and original mint bloom peaking through the
chocolate. I just wish this had come along before I blew all the
money
I did this month, rare Legal Tender and National Banknotes, then
a
Queen Mary Ryal from Scotland, an 1880 Half Dollar in PF-62 etc
etc.
Now if I can get that hoard of Nationals sold, then I have a heck
of
a
lot more spending dough. Oh gees, and Triton XII or whatever is
coming
in January, and there goes more dough.

I don't mean at all to suggest it's not a beauty. It would be
a
nice
upgrade to my 1816 by far. My point is that the MS grade seems to
be
assigned too liberally when it comes to especially attractive and
well
preserved early coppers. Rub on the high points is overlooked if
the
rest of the coin is exceptional.

PCGS and NGC can have all the proprietary grading standards and
motives they want. I may have difficulty telling an MS62 brown
cent
from an MS63, but I believe I can tell a technical UNC large cent
when I
see one -- 1806 or 1856 -- especially when the accepted grading
guides
specify no trace of wear. Rub on the high points of a design has
always
meant slight wear to me.

Penny Prices author Bill Noyes is unabashed in his assertion that
"Slab
Grade MS65 = EAC MS60 or AU55." And that's the top two grading
companies; the rest, sez he, show "even more disparity."

James

Still, to me, when you go from AU to MS, you enter a whole new
world.
It's either uncirculated or it isn't. Shouldn't need a TPG to
determine
that in most cases. I think Noyes is a little over the top in
trying
to
make his point. Granted, EAC members have relatively strict grading
standards, but a blanket statement like Noyes made makes me wonder.

I do wonder how many EAC'ers have been sufficiently brainwashed to
accept
AU55 money for their slabbed PCGS MS65 large copper. And I do
respect
their grade interpretations, too.

My experience has been that EACers use commercial grading when selling
and
EAC grading when buying. Wait, doesn't everyone?

James- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My question is why, if these things are so great, why does the Great
OZ have to bring his song and dance routine to this forum?

Shouldn't these bargain wunder-disks sell themselves?

If these things would slab higher, and thus be even more desireable,
why doesn't OZ do it himself?

If they are so great, why is the seller taking a 30% haircut (or a 30%
plus haircut, considering OZ doesn't work for free)?

Why?? Why?? Why??

Pourquoi, pourquoi, pourquoi, you ask.

I for one am always happy to get the early heads up on these things, and
it
doesn't really matter to me who is selling them. In any event, if one is
a
copper specialist (such as moi), he knows that OZ speaks the truth. As
for
the seller's motivation, I fear the worst - divorce, sickness,
foreclosure,
death, orthodontia for the quintuplets - you know, all those minor
inconveniences that foul up our best-laid plans.

James- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If they're that good, why do they have to be shilled to the masses?
Chances are Ira offered them to you and to many other serious parties,
Mr. J., long before he started promoting them here.

What I know for sure is that he did not offer them to me before he posted
his FA here.

James

Well James,

The consignor has a few more I expect he will consign after these 3
are sold. Want me to contact you about them:

Just to set some things straight in this thread. I suggested to
seller that 2 of the 3 coins would likely slab a bit higher than the
EAC grade, but seller didn't want to take the increased time it would
take plus the added expense to send them off for grading. He bought
them raw and wanted to sell them that way. And, no, I did not shop
these around to other prospective buyers! I know many on RCC have an
interest in early coppers and, in fact, one of our regulars bought the
1839 and is having me send off to PCGS for grading. I don't believe
the 1822 would slab due to the re-toned obverse.

I do know SOMETHING about real estate as I sold real estate for over
30 years. It would be a conflict of interest to tell a prospective
seller of an income producing property that you would buy it. After
all, he came to you because he wanted to expose it to the marketplace,
and that's why he came to you in the first place! He would maximize
his selling price by doing it that way. Besides, most real estate
brokers in this area don't have lots of cash floating around to do
what Oly has suggested.

Ira
.

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