Re: TdF rain tires ?

On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 05:36:48 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six
<thirty-six@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sep 20, 12:45 pm, john B. <johnbsloc...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 17:38:43 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six



<thirty-...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sep 20, 1:17 am, john B. <johnbsloc...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 06:41:57 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

<thirty-...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sep 19, 1:23 pm, john B. <johnbsloc...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Sep 2011 21:20:18 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

I'll treat the next wet corner as an airsztrip and I'll be OK then?
There'll be an abulance to pick me up anyway, if by some fate I do
manage to slip on the cleaned road with a perfect dressed surface. Do
airstrips with train tracks across them and cobbled surfaces count?
How about sand, oil, coal and other dockside contaminents? Dpo
aeroplanes dump axle fluids on the strip? Or perhaps I am riding on
the wrong roads? Whatever your excuses, it's not me who gets dumped
on the road, but those with skinny bald treaded tyres wo don't stick
to airstrips.

You are over reacting again. Hydroplaning is a distinct condition in
which water builds up in front of the wheel and actually lifts the
tire away from the roadway.

WTF should I be interested in hydroplaning, I'm English. It is good
to find the limit of one's vehicle,but here in England we try to
generally avoid aquaplaning on public roads. I know exactly what it
is, how to get there and the limitations it imposes. The tread
patterns which raise the speed for aquaplaning also raise the
cornering forces on wet roads. Tread patterns reduce the time for
penetration of the surface water. This means more of the tread is
available to grip the road and retain more closely the dry cpontact
wheel tracking response which raises confidence and reduces slipout.

No reason except that the subject of the thread was aquaplaning.

This reference to aquaplaning is evidence of your ignorance of wet
weather road grip, outside a laboratory. It is an aside to the
relevance of wet cornering grip for which cyclists are particularly
keen to retain in the real world where the magical poerfect and
cleaned road surface does not exist (well hardly ever).

as I previously wrote "you are over reacting" the subject of the
discussion was aquaplaning.

Which is irrelevant.   That tread patterns are used to prevent
aquaplaning does not bar their use from increasing the available wet
weather cornering force.  Anywhere you see a defined reflection in the
road, showing 100% water cover, is a place for patterned treads.

As I said, you are over reacting. Nobody said that tread pattern had
anything to do with anything. Nobody but you, that is. The subject was
aquaplaning and relevant tire pressures.

See my post of Sept 18, I dismissed the effect back then as an
irrellevance, it is not part of the discussion, it's a red herring
thrown in to the popot by PWL.

The importance of tyre tube pressure is in the length of the overall
contact patch. A longer patch gives more accurate tracking and
adhesive area. Patterned treads increase tread pressure over a larger
area because of their gaps. The fine wet pattern of a racing tyre
will flatten out at higher cornering forces so increasing grip when
cponditions allow. A harder wearing tread cpompopound can therefore
be used. The smooth gummy tread is a con to get you to pay more, more
frequently. It does not present the range of adhesive properties of a
fine patterned racing tyre. Tread life, ultimate cornering adhesion
and your wallet suffer.

Which may very well be correct.... however it doesn't change the fact
that aquaplaning was what we were talking about when you offered your
opinion that aircraft do not make 30 ft radius turns at 30 MPH.


You somehow appeared to equate that with
riding on slippery railroad tracks. A bit of a stretch to go from
aquaplaning to slippery steel.

Aquaplaning is an irrelevance, not for discussion.

Perhaps it is irrelevant but it is still the subject of the discussion

No, I dismissed it in my reply to PWL, There has been no discussion
over this smelly platter.
Please check the dictionary for delusional before attending your
psychiatric appointment.

Your arrogance is overwhelming. You may not have been discussing
aquaplaning but the discussion you elbowed your way into with your
comment about airplanes not making 30 ft turns at 30 mph was.
The fact that you aren't discussing a subject is immaterial in
assessing what others were talking about.

By the way, your statement that "Patterned treads increase tread
pressure over a larger area because of their gaps. The fine wet
pattern of a racing tyre will flatten out at higher cornering forces
so increasing grip when cponditions allow." seems somewhat at odds
with current thinking on the subject.

see: Journal of the Eastern Asia Society for Transportation Studies,
Vol.8, 2009, Analyzing Effect of Tire Groove Patterns on Hydroplaning
Speed
S. Santosh KUMAR, T. F. FWA, KUMAR Anupam
Department of Civil Engineering
National University of Singapore
Or,

Hydroplaning Simulation using MSC.Dytran
Toshihiko Okano* & Masataka Koishi*
THE YOKOHAMA RUBBER CO., LTD

(both available on the web)

which seem to argue that tire tread design effects aquaplaning speed
by allowing the exhaust of water from the tire water interface rather
then by any "increasing of tread pressure" as you assert.

Cheers,

John B.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: TdF rain tires ?
    ... generally avoid aquaplaning on public roads. ... The tread ... patterns which raise the speed for aquaplaning also raise the ... cornering forces on wet roads. ...
    (rec.bicycles.tech)
  • Re: TdF rain tires ?
    ... manage to slip on the cleaned road with a perfect dressed surface. ... generally avoid aquaplaning on public roads. ... patterns which raise the speed for aquaplaning also raise the ...  This means more of the tread is ...
    (rec.bicycles.tech)
  • Re: TdF rain tires ?
    ... manage to slip on the cleaned road with a perfect dressed surface. ... generally avoid aquaplaning on public roads. ... patterns which raise the speed for aquaplaning also raise the ...  This means more of the tread is ...
    (rec.bicycles.tech)
  • Re: TdF rain tires ?
    ... manage to slip on the cleaned road with a perfect dressed surface. ... generally avoid aquaplaning on public roads. ... The tread ... weather road grip, outside a laboratory. ...
    (rec.bicycles.tech)