Re: SRAM or nuvinci electric pedal asssist

On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 01:23:29 GMT, Peter Cole <peter_cole@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

carlfogel@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 15:15:22 GMT, Peter Cole <peter_cole@xxxxxxxxxxx>

The problem is we don't need 40 mpg vehicles, we need 100-200 mpg
vehicles. Internal combustion engines just won't get us there.

Dear Peter,

Er, you picked the Tesla as your example in your original post.

I'm sorry, I don't think I did, but I don't know the point you're trying
to make.

And the slower acceleration was after they stopped for an hour's
recharge, according to what you quoted.

Yes, and after that recharge the range indicator had 23 miles if I
recall correctly, but the "slower acceleration" was hardly slower at
all, according to the original road test article, but the right-wing rag
made it sound crippled. The spec wasn't mentioned, but I'm guessing it's
8 hr or more for a complete recharge.

You noticed the range and refuel problems--what about the $100,000
price tag?

It's a high performance sports car, body by Lotus, etc. The price tag is
typical for that market.

And what about the manufacture of the batteries,

Lithium technology has been around for years, but the only high volume
source has been the laptop market, which is why the Tesla uses a huge
number of laptop cells. It's the typical chicken/egg problem.

the ability of the
electrical grid to recharge them all (California already has rolling
blackouts in the summer), and the cost of that electricity (apart from
the "fuel", someone has to pay the tax for the roads).

If the average person drives 1k miles/mo and an e-car gets ~250 W-h/mi,
that's 250 kW-h/mo. The average household uses about 1,000 kW-h/mo, so
yes, there would be impact on the distribution grid, but rather modest,
since these cars will be phased in over several years. 250 kW-h/mo is
$25-50/mo much less than people could expect to pay for gas, even at
current prices. Most roads are not paid for by gas tax, but I imagine
that this use of electricity would be taxed to support roads. That won't
be for a while, since around the world these vehicles are being given
tax breaks.

Last I heard, gas is $11 a gallon in Italy, with no swarms of electric
cars in sight.

There are no "swarms" anywhere, except scooters in China. The swarms are
coming. In Italy some cities have banned vehicles with emissions, from
what I understand, trash collection is almost all EV in Italy. EV's are
exempt from the London access fee, etc.

I didn't raise the Tesla originally, you brought up the American
Enterprise article which gave it an unflattering spin of a reported test
drive. I was talking about ultracapacitors, which may have the ability
to go past the present capacity, cost and charge time specs of
batteries. Battery technology is improving rapidly as well.


The problem is that someone decides is "needed" isn't the same as what
actually works on a large scale.

"Large scale" solutions are difficult to introduce, even those that
actually work. We haven't seen a lot of new car companies in the last
century. The problem that we saw in the 70's and again last year is that
the economics of fuels can change overnight, but the global fleet can't
be swapped and new technologies perfected in the same time frame. In the
computer business we've seen the mainframe guys get wiped out by the
mini guys who in turn got wiped out by the micro guys, none of them saw
the truck that hit them.

Dear Peter,

Given the sprawling nature of the replies, you may have forgotten this
post:

"A version for the Tesla would weigh ~300lb vs. 1,000lb. Electric
motors and drive systems are much lighter than IC. The characteristics
of ultracaps make the technology very favorable for hybrid designs."

"I wouldn't expect "fair & balanced" coverage from the mouthpiece of t
the American Enterprise Institute."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/c22c1b30034e1933

Just as your concern with fairness and balance may led you to forget
fair and balanced comments like this:

"No, I don't hate cars. I dislike the dominance of the car culture,
particularly in the city, which I find the car has made it much less
livable. I actually think cars are a pretty good fit to rural areas,
and I don't have an opinion about the suburbs as I believe, as James
Howard Kunstler says, they're mostly places not worth caring about."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/6c5b55354ec1c6f5

If you write that theoretical improvements in capacitors are going to
change the whole game, you'll probably find a lot of comments that you
find spinning things in an unfair and unbalanced fashion--but that's
okay, since so far electric cars aren't worth caring about.

:-)

I agree that it would be nice if four-wheeled electric passenger
vehicles were practical, but so far they seem to be restricted to golf
courses.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: SRAM or nuvinci electric pedal asssist
    ... I'll have to disagree and say I think electric cars are very much ... A Tesla would make one hell of a golf cart. ... electricity. ... note that this thing uses liquid cooling to keep the battery pack ...
    (rec.bicycles.tech)
  • Re: SRAM or nuvinci electric pedal asssist
    ... I'll have to disagree and say I think electric cars are very much ... A Tesla would make one hell of a golf cart. ... electricity. ... like complete doofus vehicles, or glorified golf carts. ...
    (rec.bicycles.tech)
  • Re: SRAM or nuvinci electric pedal asssist
    ... Lithium technology has been around for years, but the only high volume source has been the laptop market, which is why the Tesla uses a huge number of laptop cells. ... The average household uses about 1,000 kW-h/mo, so yes, there would be impact on the distribution grid, but rather modest, since these cars will be phased in over several years. ... Most roads are not paid for by gas tax, but I imagine that this use of electricity would be taxed to support roads. ... That won't be for a while, since around the world these vehicles are being given tax breaks. ...
    (rec.bicycles.tech)
  • Re: Hu? Do Dis Make Sense?
    ... you're thinking of buying one of those gas-electric hybrid cars like ... > excess electricity to a utility. ... > While vehicles could generate plenty of power - studies show they sit ...
    (sci.energy)
  • Re: Electric Car Conversion Companies: Alternatives To Gas Powered Cars
    ... cable" that could be embedded in a highway to power cars by induction ... and the vehicles could travel the relatively short distances ... we still need a source for the electricity. ... I think the force of John's argument is that gasoline automobiles are ...
    (rec.arts.sf.written)
Loading