Re: Any CF experts out there?

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
That is nonsense. The better bicycle companies have access to carbon fiber
of extraordinary quality. In Trek's case, you get carbon fiber manufacturers
that want to show off their best stuff because they're a high-visibility
domestic manufacturer. There are export laws that prohibit the sale of the
"best stuff" overseas, but if a company in Taiwan or China wants to build a
very high quality frame, they can get material that's certainly very high
quality. Whether they want to is another thing entirely (it adds quite a bit
of expense). But the fact that Trek can ultimately get carbon fiber that's a
bit better does not prevent someone else from building an excellent bike.
Okay Mike, don't take this question the wrong way, but which Trek frames
are unexportable due to their magic materials?

Trek can export a frame made of the restricted material, but there are restrictions on the export of the material itself. Don't ask me how or why. My guess is that it's done more to protect the domestic aircraft industry than to keep dangerous technology out of China. And, as I said, it's not as if Giant or whomever can't get high-quality carbon fiber. But Trek does benefit from having relationships with companies that can freely demonstrate and sell their coolest & greatest stuff, even though it might not go into a bicycle anytime soon. The advantage is that Trek sees where things are going and what materials might be practical (and cost-effective) to use down the road.

Last time I was in Wisconsin (August) I saw some of this super-duper material. Looks like any other to me, except that it feels much less substantial (because there's less of it per square meter). An engineer explained the benefits and drawbacks to its use, and how it makes sense to use in some areas of a frame, and not in others. Someday that stuff will come down in price and be available anywhere, and at that point somebody is going to build a ridiculously-light frame out of it that will be fine as long as you're upright, but if you hit the top tube with your shoe as you're putting a leg over it, you'll probably crack it. That's where it seems we're going. Hopefully we'll get to the point where people will understand the trade-offs and there will be a market for essentially the same bike in two different versions- one which is built as light as you can and still survive the rigors of racing, but if it falls against a coffee table, it might break in half. And the other might weigh half a pound, maybe 3/4 pound more, same ride quality, but be much more durable against accidental damage.

We're not there yet. Right now, the customer wanting to buy a $6000+ bike wants it to be as light as possible. It's an education thing. Nobody is going to tell that customer that he or she is giving something up by doing so, because they don't want to scare customers away to their competitors (who won't be saying that and thus it will be assumed their bikes are better). But if a manufacturer takes the not-so-bold step of doing two different high-end frames, one bleeding edge, the other just slightly heavier and more durable... I think people are smart enough to make a reasonable choice, and a good number will choose the slightly-heavier bike.

look already do that with their high end frames - two versions of the same design, eg. "585" and "585 ultra".




--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA



"Ryan Cousineau" <rcousine@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:rcousine-3F4CD0.17594718092008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]...
In article <IkxAk.849$YU2.285@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"Crescentius Vespasianus" <jazzyboss@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1_qdnYP4P-fI7U_VnZ2dnUVZ_rjinZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I've been riding on some CF for 8 years now and have some questions for
any experts out there.

3. I once read here in rbt that the aircraft industry gets the best CF
and the bike industry uses the crap CF, is there a difference in the
quality of CF?
That is nonsense. The better bicycle companies have access to carbon fiber
of extraordinary quality. In Trek's case, you get carbon fiber manufacturers
that want to show off their best stuff because they're a high-visibility
domestic manufacturer. There are export laws that prohibit the sale of the
"best stuff" overseas, but if a company in Taiwan or China wants to build a
very high quality frame, they can get material that's certainly very high
quality. Whether they want to is another thing entirely (it adds quite a bit
of expense). But the fact that Trek can ultimately get carbon fiber that's a
bit better does not prevent someone else from building an excellent bike.
Okay Mike, don't take this question the wrong way, but which Trek frames
are unexportable due to their magic materials?

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@xxxxxxxxx http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."


.

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