Re: Hazards of night cycling

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 13:40:25 -0400, "Greens" <prbj@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


<joseph.santaniello@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1190816760.924627.107400@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Sep 26, 2:34 pm, vey <jun...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
joseph.santanie...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

Car headlights, like everything else, ARE available in varying quailty
levels at various prices. Some are made in the same factory, but sold
at different prices under different brands. Sometimes the cheap ones
are just as good, sometimes better. Sure most of them, even the cheap
ones are good enough,

Car headlights are *not* like everything else. Car headlight performance
is regulated by the US Department of Transportation. They must meet
minimum standards and be DOT approved. That's why even cheap ones are
"good enough." There's a reason they are regulated. It's because people
were getting maimed and killed by inferior lights that weren't "good
enough." No that long ago cars used bulbs like the kind found in the
tailights, but a little brighter. Those were not able to get DOT
approved.

I was thinking mostly about longevity, and resistance to vibration,
etc. But anyway, sealed beam is NOT better and the DOT specs are crap.
Reflector and lens design as well as bulb type are what make a light
good or not. I was thinking about bare bulbs. When I lived in the US I
got Euro-spec lights (reflectors, lenses, as well as high wattage
bulbs) on (almost) all my cars. The focus is much tighter and the
projection much further. They are more of an irritant to other drivers
if they are out of alignment, but I'm the sort of guy who is careful
about that sort of thing. On a recent trip to California I recall the
lights on my borrowed US-spec 2007 BMW X3 as much worse than my cheap
'98 Euro-spec Fiat.

A modern US spec car (say a 2002 Jetta) does not use sealed beam
lights. The lenses and reflectors are designed to meet US DOT
regulations. If you take a trip to a Pep-Boys there are all manner of
bulbs available to put in. Some are for sure crap, other not so.


but that is because car driving is pretty
similar no matter what. People ride bikes in a much more varied way.

People drive in different ways, too. They drive on a variety of surfaces
and different cars have their headlights at different heights. Somehow,
the headlight manufacturer's have figured this out and design for it.

Cars operate in a very well defined and known speed range. Most cars
drive from 0-30mph in town, 40-50 when things are a bit more open, and
60-80 on the highway. There aren't many cars that don't get used in
all those ranges. Bikes are different. Some never see speeds higher
than 8mph! The needs of cyclists are much more varied IMO.


Sealed beams were a huge improvement because it gave the headlight
manufacturer control rather than the car maker. Bicycle light
manufacturers have the same control. They should use it.

Sealed beam just eliminated rust on the reflector.

As a side note, have you noticed that Garrity doesn't make bicycle
lights? Neither does Dorcy. Nothing from SureFire or Mag. Not trying to
be argumenative, but why do you think that is?

I don't know. Because it is a difficult product to do well and they
don't want to make crap?

Joseph


When it comes to safety features, I prefer that manufacturers assume that
the bicycle is going to be used in the most demanding conditions so that all
bikes are equipped with quality lighting whether they're going to be used at
night or not. Can you imagine cars being sold with no lights because the
owner thought he wasn't going to use it at night? The one cheapskate's
attempt at saving a few dollars can affect the safety of everyone on the
road.

For some unknown reason, being a cheapskate and scrimping on equipment is
tolerated among many of the cyclists here. It's no wonder the law doesn't
see you as reasonable, law abiding citizens when you have an accident. They
happily put the blame for accidents on the individual cyclist here in
America.


I have a bike that I ride that generally I go about 13 mph on average.
Sometimes I go 3 mph sometimes I go 40. Not too much the 40. On
another bike I average 19-20 on most rides unless I am feeling frisky
and I am going better than 20. That same bike I might do 40 down some
hills. If I am in the mountains I might go 50+ down the hills in
daylight under good dry conditions. Now when I am bombing down the
hills at 50 I make a stupid assumption that the roads are in good
shape and there is no obstacle in the road. If I fail to slow down to
avoid the obstacle do I sue the brake manufacturer because I could not
stop soon enough? No, it my tough luck failing to judge the
conditions.

Back to the bike riding lights discussion. I race my mountain bike at
speeds from slow to faster than 20 mph at night with no moon. I go as
fast as I can see. Well if I am strong enough and skilled enough. If I
am riding with my 15 year old Nightsun lights I might be able to go
pretty darn fast. If I am riding with a Light and Motion HID I can
bomb around even faster as the lights are brighter. Generally my
pucker factor is such that I do not outride a good HID system. The
Nightsun I can sometimes outride. I have tried to ride with a $20
Cateye. Well that light is good on a full moon night if I am going
slow. I do not think I would use it for urban commuting as it is not a
be seen light. The Nightsun with a 10 watt and a 20 watt bulb is
bright enough for the commuting roads I know at speeds up to about 40.
If I was on unknown roads I doubt I would want to blast down at the
same speed. Now you want a light manufacturer to make a light bright
enough for mountain bike night racers or fast road riders. And you do
not want to spend $200-400 for that lights bright enough to go that
fast.

You can buy a $12,000 car that can go 80 mph or $50-100,000 car that
can go 180 mph. Both may have DOT approved headlights. I suspect the
car with the 180 top speed has better headlights but probably not real
great for canyon driving at 150 mph. Even DOT headlights may not
provide optimum lighting in many conditions. I know that Ecode lights
in my car would be a huge improvement. The Ecodes have been better in
every car I have installed them in since I first tried them in 1978.
How come we have DOT code when Ecode is superior. Superior defined as
tight beam, better lit in front of the car and longer range in both
low and high beam.

You assume that many bicyles are riden at night. Why would you put
$200 light on a $150 bike? Even on a $1,000 bike. That is like saying
that all cars should come with a Bose sound system. If it comes with a
radio it has to be high fidelity? Ok, maybe Bose it not some ultimate
sound system but they generally sound a bit better than the cheap
system some cars come with. How can you enjoy Vivaldi or Bach or John
Williams or whoever you like?
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Hazards of night cycling
    ... Car headlights are *not* like everything else. ... were getting maimed and killed by inferior lights that weren't "good ... I have a bike that I ride that generally I go about 13 mph on average. ...
    (rec.bicycles.tech)
  • Re: Hit and run in Yorkshire
    ... by a vehicle which failed to stop. ... To be fair, when a cyclist collided with my car and was knocked off, it ... make a big enough gap for the bike, and obviously there is no way i`m going ... All the ranting and speculation about lights is quite ...
    (uk.rec.cycling)
  • Re: Hazards of night cycling
    ... Sure most of them, even the cheap ... Car headlights are *not* like everything else. ... were getting maimed and killed by inferior lights that weren't "good ... I have a bike that I ride that generally I go about 13 mph on average. ...
    (rec.bicycles.tech)
  • Re: Hazards of night cycling
    ... Sometimes the cheap ones ... were getting maimed and killed by inferior lights that weren't "good ... A modern US spec car does not use sealed beam ... I have a bike that I ride that generally I go about 13 mph on average. ...
    (rec.bicycles.tech)
  • Re: OT: joining the ranks of two wheelers again
    ... mountain bike for cheap as a) it was beat up and b) he didn't want to be ... Hope it was real cheap because beatup Murray-grade mountain bikes are ... but save it for a good bike that will actually be a joy to ride. ... and especially when forcing the same car to pass you ...
    (rec.autos.driving)
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