Re: Extracted from Thread:: backtracking

On Feb 12, 1:46 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Feb 12, 6:27 am, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Off the treadmill? Hmmm.

Look, a long time ago I used to get into things with
Kunich. Eventually I realized there was no point. My
time has value. So I stopped.

Political threads are like that. No one ever changes
their opinion, 99.9% of the debate is just yammering
back and forth until one side tires or becomes bored.

<snip>

Dumbass -

I've actually seend a few people change their mind.

When it does happen, it is surprising.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Here are a couple of questions for Howard that might very well change
my view of his positions.
Lets establish a conversation point first though. We had discussed
human rights, and US support for people who violate them. I took, and
do take the position that in the absence of something better the US
should support people who aren't hostile to them, and work on the
violations from there. Howards position was that he would much rather
we never support people who violate human rights, and I could respect
that position.
That brings us to a longstanding thorn in my side that you probably
remember. It was in some of the early discussions on Gitmo, where
everyone including both Lafferty and myself agreed that it was a
disaster. Howard has frequently, and rightly condemned Gitmo and the
supporters of that policy. My problem is that I have never been able
to get Howard to condemn Castro's prisons, torture, summary
executions, and all the folks here on the left who support and laud
Castro. If he has done it, and I missed it, I owe him a huge apology
and will happily make it.
Another situation is more recent, but in the same vein. The Guardian,
of all people, have concretely tied Hugo Chavez to materially
supporting, and co-operating with FARC. The human rights groups are as
clear on FARC as they are on Castro, yet I haven't been able to get
Howard to criticize Chavez for this, or any of his other behavior they
cite as a serious concern.
The third and last situation is Howard's calling Israeli governement
folks war criminals and such. I can see where he gets that, and can't
disagree with a lot of it even, but I have been totally unable to get
him to apply the same labels to Arafat, and the leaders of the
Palestinian, and Pan-Arab groups that deliberately targeted, and
continue to target civilians.
Why aren't they also war criminals, and why isn't he calling for them
to be arrested too?\
It's not hard to find me condemning the right and left, and I have
stated up front that, at times I could subjugate absolute human rights
in consideration of National interest so I'm not perfect here. Howard
found that repellant of me. If his belief in human rights is absolute
where is the condemnation of those folks on the left who violate them,
and the condemnation of their supporters here in the US?
Maybe I missed the elephant in the room, if I have will someone
please point him out to me so I can apologize to Howard.
Bill C
.

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