Re: OT: Words from a great man

Dans le message de
news:5611ea2a-7bf1-4669-b1d5-b0d3e76666a9@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
SLAVE of THE STATE <gwhite@xxxxxx> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
On Nov 19, 7:40 am, "Sandy" <leur...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Dans le message
denews:c16ef82a-5253-4030-8ed5-e010e842c9cd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
Bill C <tritonri...@xxxxxxxxxxx> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :


OK, I have read and now wish to offer a personal perspective on
several
points.

1 - there is an irrational belief that illegal presence is laudable,
when
those who take the required, long, uncertain and costly steps to
enter
legally and obtain work or citizenship are not considered in the
equation.

There is no inherent duty to obey The State. If it is in one's best
interests to obey The State, then my advice is to do so. One's duty
is to oneself. That includes accepting jobs where every afternoon is
a training ride on the back of a certain Sonoma County taxpayer.

2 - Immigration is not the only goal, and often is not an actual
goal, for
the undocumented. Employment is their objective, for the most part.

Yes.

3 - Employment at substandard rates indicates the typical consumer
interest
of obtaining quality for lowe price. Not from the workers'
viewpoint - from
the American consumers'.

What the hell does "substandard" mean? Like you must mean, "lower
than my personal /value judgments/ say it /ought/ to be, and I'm
smarter than others, and I got the votes." Americans are different
than anyone else? Why would any body trade anything if they did not
think they would be better off than before? Just altruism? Well
maybe some people find altruism to be satisfying along with 52" LCD
screens.

4 - The effects of illegal immigration is mostly on unskilled and
onerous
work. There are not a lot of illegals working on Wall Street or in
the
Silicon Valley unless they are hauling brooms and mops.

Well that is the biggest story of immigration to the US, legal or
illegal. Sure, there have been many skilled people too.

5 - The invisible effect of non-immigration is the emigration of
jobs in
fabrication, manufacturing, reprocessing; I don't see an America
that wants
to continue to work on factory assembly lines. Everyone wants to be
a
manager. There are too many colleges selling too many irrational
dreams.

I don't see that "America wants" or "does not want" any such a
things. I think it is rather irrelevent, really. People may or may
not seize the opportunities they actually manage to see. That
opportunities arise is not something people can necessarily control,
or say like: "I will have such and such opportunity!" and it suddenly
comes into being by command.

In my observation, I see that people want to survive, and do it as
comfortably and pleasureably as possible. The upward want is
inevitable, immigrant, subject, or citizen alike. The only question
is what actually happens.

6 - America is protectionist, period. No reason to think it
embraces world
trade that doesn't heavily favor American interests. Those
interests, in
practicality, do not represent the personal economic interests of
citizens,
but the financial and meta-financial interests of the largest
corporations.
No, this is not a diatribe against corporate interests, just a
reminder of
where the influence is in creating both policy and law.

Well you know how it goes. Whatever the flaws and capture of
government that exist, the solution is always more government, because
we know, don't we, that the bigger government will always be more
immune to capture than smaller government. Always make government
*more powerful*, that way it has more gifts to give.

But you fail to mention that the basic nature and structure of
government is that it itself grows in power and income. No intention
is necessary for this to happen. Government benefits government
first.

"The solution to bad government, is always more government." --
Statist Playbook

"The solution to big government, is always bigger government." --
Statist Playbook

"The solution to a small government, is always a bigger government."
-- Statist Playbook

"The solution to government failure, is always bigger government
failure." -- Statist Playbook

"The solution to government failure in regulating business and trade,
is bigger and better plans for the government to regulate business and
trade." -- Statist Playbook

7 - As to any worker, immigrant or not, legal or not, employers seek
to
reduce cost and increase profitability by paying the least possible
for
labor. That's the system that is applauded, so long as it favors
distributed growth. When it favors corporate profit, the obvious
solution
is a wholesale replacement of government, ...

Let's just put "abolishment" in there instead of "replacement." There
is no need to replace the old problem with a new one, which is the
same as the old. The experiment of government has been tinkered with
long enough. It is a failed doctrine. Just let it die.

but since all politics is local,
that is as likely as butter being a cure for high cholesterol levels.

If more of the politics were actually local, it would probably be a
better state of affairs. If you don't like the local jurisdiction,
the cost of exit is low. If you don't like the nation, the costs of
exit are very high.

The ONLY political agenda or ideology
is getting elected and RE-elected.

For politicians, yes. All life is politics, which is to say there is
power balance to deal with in pretty much every relationship. It is a
basic fact of being a social creature.

8 - The expense of inspecting and enforcing illegal labor is
enormous. Not
just the issue of illegal immigrants, but the results of typical
black-market labor. Like the local mechanic who charges a little
less and
takes cash payments. Like the people on eBay who make a living
there, yet
either don't report income, or classify it as hobby income.

Anyone who manages to not hand over their assets to The State is a
Freedom Fighter. Applaude them.

I hope Jeter wins, just on principle.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-yankees-jeter-taxes&prov=ap&type=lgns

9 - Truly trade-union influences are always susceptible to
cut-throat,
cut-rate non union competition. Low price is hard to reject.

There is no problem there, so why did you write it?

Illegal immigration is a problem only when the worst labor, industry,
capital and taxation systems direct money away from personal incomes
of
individuals on the broad scale.

"Broad scale" is usually just a code phrase for commie-dom
redistributionist law. Other than that, I think I agree. There is no
problem of immigration if the legitimate owners of property invite
them there. There is no other legitimate criteria.

Illegal immigrants allow lots of people to
continue to enjoy the pleasures of daily life at lower cost, and
today's
enjoyment is considered more important to realize than the building
of a
foundation for a successful futre economy.

All people who would "construct an economy" are cranks. The "economy"
needs a construction plan in the same way a robin needs blueprints to
build their nest. The "economy" is generated via spontaneous order.
It does not exist due to the design of Man. Life has its own /
purpose/: itself. That does not mean it was "designed." /Purpose/ is
not inextricably linked to /design/. In this matter it is decidely
not.

"Liberty is the Mother, not the daughter, of order." -- Proudhon

End of rant, for today.
--
Sandy
-
Darwinism, born in ideological struggle, has never escaped from an
intimate
reciprocal relationship with worldviews exported from and imported
into the
science. No one challenges the claim that evolutionary theory has
had a wide
effect on social theory. It is a cliché of cultural history that the
explanation of evolution by natural selection served as an
ideological
justification for laissez-faire capitalism and the colonial
domination of
the lesser breeds without the law

- Richard Lewontin

Lewontin thought there were "lesser breeds?" What a racist asswipe.

Social Darwinism is well dead, except in the minds of cranks. No one
pays any attention to them anyway. Get over it.

I have to let this one go unedited to put a big flag on you as a non
contributor to the exchange of ideas. It needs to be ad hominem, as you
would just as easily and moronically post your little snippets of argument
had you replied to pictures of pretty flowers. If you should ever decide to
write something serious, notwithstanding my overwhelming belief that it
would occur just after the team of monkeys had created the First Folio
contents intact in calligraphy, a small reference to liguistic tools, such
as dictionaries, could help you to grasp things like common meanings used
for communication. As it stands (falls flat, more likely), you have
succeeded in migrating electrons, no more. I am obliged to read tedious
blather due to my profession. I read your scrivenings with a reasonable
belief that by the end, I would see a smiley and a note "Just kidding". I
will get over it. "It" being the appearance of your name as author of any
other article ever submitted anywhere in this galaxy - I beg you to keep the
same identity. Please, feel free to resume autopilot. I am already over
it, aaaaaaaah!
--
Sandy
--
Il n'est aucune sorte de sensation qui soit plus vive
que celle de la douleur ; ses impressions sont sûres,
elles ne trompent point comme celles du plaisir.
- de Sade.


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