Re: Quiet!! Omerta At Work


"Chris M" <chrismcreynolds@xxxxxxxxxxx> a écrit dans le message de news:
1125084620.915375.280660@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> You seem to feel that all of the accusations and innuendo somehow
> combine to form as evidence for something (EPO you say).
>
> Here are objective facts. In 1998, the Festina team was caught with
> drugs. Most of the team denied initially but then confessed to a
> structured doping program. There is no question that this team was
> guilty of illegally influencing the race outcome as much as drugs
> possibly can. Still, they did not win the race.

Of course, if I allready they left the tour (or better to say it was aked to
them).. LOL !


You can conclude from
> that one of two remaining possibilities; either the teams that beat
> Festina were able to do so without drugs (and therefore winning the
> race proves nothing) or you can take the popular view that any time
> there is objective evidence of drugs (like Festina, then Rumsas etc.)
> that in addition to "proving" the guilt of those caught red handed with
> drugs in their possession, anyone outperforming those caught are also
> "proven" to be on drugs. Like it or not, those that are persistently
> taking shots at Armstrong are going on the theory that you have to use
> dope to beat any other dopers. These people feel that the only
> remaining thing to do is to find the hard evidence against Lance. So,
> for the past 6 plus years they have been going around (this is not a
> vast coordinated conspiracy but instead a lot of like-minded fools each
> validating their own theories to one another) spreading rumors and
> leaking info that is no more than wishful thinking. Put aside Lance for
> the moment and now look at Tyler's case. If you read everything
> published about his case, you will see that Tyler was targeted. The UCI
> admits they targeted him but they use different language. The key point
> is that any test should not have its outcome dependant on who the
> target is. Specifically, the analysis of Tyler's blood sample that led
> to his "positive" would not have triggered the same analysis if the
> sample had come from any other athlete. Again, the language is "spun"
> differently, but my statements are derived from the press release of
> the agencies involved.
>
> To summarize my point, there is now a culture of mistrust in cycling.
> It comes from a number of facts including that it really is possible to
> "get away with it'". There is no question in my mind that anyone that
> is careful enough can get away with doping in sport. However, I have
> decided that I will not get frustrated by that fact and I will insist
> that each individual athlete will be presumed innocent without
> substantial evidence of cheating. Most will say that, but as I said
> that prevailing culture in cycling I spoke of also includes the heavy
> implication that every dope finding shows "proof" of guilt of the
> individual caught as well as anyone outperforming that individual. That
> means that obviously if you have won each and every Tour *since* the
> Festina affair, that fact alone is proof enough for many people that
> Armstrong is de facto doping. Haven't we all read over these past 7
> seasons average power estimates as proof of doping, etc.? The fact that
> Lance is an American may or may not make him more of a target. I never
> thought so (rather I thought it was mostly the timing) until Tyler got
> nailed. Maybe there is a bit of nationalism behind these findings. I
> don't know but I think the evidence that some top Americans have been
> targeted is stronger than the evidence against Armstrong.
>
> To add a little more to my comments about the timing, there have been
> rumors of (blood) doping since the early 90s. These rumors were the
> dawn of a new age for 2 reasons. I already stated that it is entirely
> possible to get away with it and that is frustrating for everyone,
> innocent as well as guilty. The more important factor is that it is
> possible to get away with passing through the controls unscathed and
> assisting the performance of the athlete in ways that may actually
> influence the outcome of the race. I know many of you take it for
> granted that EPO or even Sudafed can make a Tour winner out of any
> middle of the road rider but that is hugely greatly exaggerated.
> Anyhow, combining those 2 factors is what has lead to the witch hunt
> environment. I am convinced that if the same thing as the Festina
> affair had happened in 1991, Lemond would have been the leading whiner,
> the US would be talking about the "2 speed" theory as an excuse why
> there had only been one winner and the 1992 ITT win of Indurain would
> have been absolute proof that he doped (and I actually think he did but
> I think most of the athletes of that time did and I don't care that
> Lemond probably did not. You have to draw the line somewhere and I have
> no problems with Indurain's wins or anyone else that is able to win
> without triggering positive doping results or getting caught with
> contraband. I think we should just use the 50% rule (modify it if need
> be) and stop trying to lower the standards of evidence. I think right
> now this culture I spoke of has put more pressure on the labs than any
> other entity and that is why we are hearing things that is starting to
> influence the credibility of some of these institutions.
>
> This is all understandable of you step back and look at things
> logically. The only thing I don't understand is, why are some of the no
> name weekend warrior \ super-fans taking the position of the "cheated
> victim"? Only in your imagination are these doping problems hurting the
> competitions. It may be causing damage to the image of the sport but
> most of that is coming from the mouths of these so-called fans. You
> Chicken Little types that scream, "foul" long before anyone really
> knows anything are helping to create the impression that everyone
> really does dope. I also want to point out that if you talk to those
> that really know (and sure some of them are going to be less than
> truthful) almost none of them think that a majority of riders are
> doping. The worst of it is long gone. Many of us remember the period
> when a few teams would walk all over the rest of the peloton, that does
> not happen any more (Liege Bastogne Liege in 1994 I think where
> Argentin, Berzin and I think Furlan went on a 3 man break and went away
> for the whole race). There continues to be some outstanding
> performances but I think that can be explained aside from doping. No,
> the real problem is the willingness of man people inside and out of the
> sport to use tea leave reading as "proof" of doping. It is pathetic.
>
> One more thing, before anyone calls me an Armstrong apologist, do a
> survey of the comments I have made about him.
>


.

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