Re: Westland Welkin

On Feb 5, 3:19�am, "Geoffrey Sinclair" <gsinclai...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
"Rob Arndt" <teuton...@xxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:83e993c4-9d81-49c8-a54f-13eae6aad127@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Also, it should be noted that there was a proposal for a six-engined
Ju-286 bomber.

Along with plenty of other projects, vapour ware does not count.

I never said it did, I just posted that tidbit of information for
those who may not have known about it.

Translation, after noting the Ju86 had problems the idea is to pretend
something better was going to come along.

No translation, you can take what I stated literally as it is the
truth and as for the Ju-86- it was onsolete as a bomber pre-WW2 so the
Germans made the P & R versions for high-altitude recon and they DID
cause Britain trouble at interception, hence the Spit mods. Still took
a few years to "fix" that problem.

Anything counts, so vapour ware is reached for.

The Ju-286 would have bombed
Britain from 50,000 ft and would have had defensive armament meaning
that if produced in numbers would have made Britain work harder to
shoot them down.

Note Robert is basically using his preferred performance figures for
things like ceilings and armament. �Being a paper project you can wish
what you like into it.

Allies did the same thing with their paper projects, so you can forget
using that as an excuse to speak for me.

Also, it is worth mentioning that had the two He-274s been completed
in 1945 (delayed due to French sabotage) they would have had a ceiling
of nearly 50,000 ft themselves and thus the same scenario.

You see one of the reasons people like Robert prefer vapour ware is
the reality is somewhat different.

The French actually completed the He274 and flew it post war. �Top
speed 360 mph at 36,000 feet, absolute ceiling 46,900 feet. �So no
He274 with a bomb load is going to be much above 45,000 feet.
Hence the way the ceiling is described as "nearly 50,000 feet".

Actually, the stats for the He-274 before it ever flew is pretty much
the same as when it flew: Max speed at S/L 267 mph/360 mph at 36,090
ft, ceiling 46,915 ft, and range of 2640 miles. First one actually
flew in Dec 1945 and was considered impressive enough although noe
designated as French AAS 01A.

Meantime the early allied jet engines did not have as much trouble at
high altitude as the German ones, hence the Meteor I and Vampire I
had service ceilings of 40,000 feet. �The long nacelled Meteor III, the
last 15 in the production batch of mark III, could do 475 mph at 38,000
feet.

Vampire didn'et make it into WW2 and Meteor barely- its only claim
being a few V-1s to its credit. Wow. Poor Germans got the Me-163,
Me-262, Ar-234, and He-162 into the fight and had the Ba-349, Hs-132,
Ju-287, Me-263, and Me P.1101 under development as well as the first
components of the Fw Ta 183 and He-343 manufactured.

The P-80A did better, 492 mph at 40,000 feet, service ceiling 45,000
feet.

That POS was grounded due to continued crashes and the European
promotion of the early models to Britain and Italy for troop morale
failed. Out of 4 a/c (2 to GB and 2 to Italy), two crashed (1 in GB
and 1 in Italy)- 50% loss rate. Only Gen Hap Arnold rescued the P-80
or else it would have been cancelled in fall 1945. Investigations were
in progress over safety and integrity of the basic design when he save
it. And if it was so good, why did good old Hap prevent Howard Hughes
from racing his Me-262 against the P-80 postwar in the air races?
Because a top secret comparison of the P-80 and the Me-262 revealed
that the Nazi fighter was superior which infuriated Arnold and he
didn't want to look like a fool to the public and the military if a
Nazi fighter beat what was claimed to be America's jet fighter in a
simple air race (ref: Smithsonian).

Nice try Geoffry, but wasted effort again...

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.

Rob

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