Re: Question for Guy???

On 5 Nov, 15:11, Rob Arndt <teuton...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
On Nov 5, 1:07 am, guy <guyswetten...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:





On 4 Nov, 20:20, Rob Arndt <teuton...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

On Nov 4, 11:55 am, guy <guyswetten...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 4 Nov, 19:52, Rob Arndt <teuton...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

On Nov 4, 11:44 am, guy <guyswetten...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 4 Nov, 19:32, Rob Arndt <teuton...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

On Nov 4, 1:29 am, guy <guyswetten...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 4 Nov, 05:38, Rob Arndt <teuton...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Do you think that the Supermarine 391:http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a94/WtMiller/scan0009.jpg

... had it been built, would have replaced or complemented the
Supermarine Sea Fang:http://www.adam-lisa.supanet.com/images/Seafang/seafa3.jpg

Specs for the 391:

The Supermarine 391 was to be powered by the 24 cylinder Eagle engine
and would make use of the Spiteful's laminar flow wing, but this time
featuring radiators fully enclosed in the wing roots. This design
would use counter rotating propellers, considered essential to counter
the torque of such a powerful engine, and this Supermarine 391 had a
design speed of no less than 546mph, slightly highter than the Me
262!

So, why did the Sea Fang get built and the 391 cancelled since the
requirement for both was from March 1944, right?

Sea Fang's performance is lower and max speed down to 475 mph- around
the same as the Fw Ta 152H and Do-335...

Just curious...

Rob

p.s. ISTR that Hawker also had a proposal that was cancelled.

Engines.

The Seafang was a navalised Spiteful, in the same way as the Sea fury
was a navalised Fury, both used tried and trusted RR Griffons
(Spiteful, some Furys) Napier Sabres, by then pretty reliable (some
Furys) or Centaurus (some Furys)

The type 391 bore the same relationship to the Spiteful as the Hawker
P.1030 did to the Tempest (from which the Fury evolved)
Both used the 24cylinder RR Eagle engine but this engine was very
early in its development, ISTR only 6 ever built and one or two flown.
So by the time engine development could be complete the piston fighter
would be obsolete. (RR were never that keen on the Eagle seeing that
the future lay with gas turbines by then.)

Hawker therefore went with an RR Nene powered Fury - which became the
Sea Hawk, while Supermarine went for an RR Nene Spiteful - the
Attacker.

Guy- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So which British naval fighter saw action first postwar? Sea Fury in
Korea?

Rob- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In Korea i am not sure, but it could equally well be a Firefly.
Again I cannot be certain without doing some research but I would not
be surprised if a Seafire was in action in some colonial action pre-
Korea

Guy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Apparently, the Attacker saw no combat but the Sea Fury did in Korea:

Fleet Air Arm Hawker Seafury y F.B. 11 O-114 of 802 squadron (HMS
Ocean) flown by Lt P "Hoagy" Carmichael on 9 August 1952 shot down a
MiG-15 was the first such kill by a piston-engine fighter, and the
only kill by a British pilot flying a British aircraft during the
Korean War.

Rob

p.s. Meteor's postwar RAF record:http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_gloster_meteor_RAF_postw...-

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I bet a Sea Fury was aerodynamically superior to a Meatbox ;-)

Guy- Hide quoted text -

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Sad to think that the Kriegsmarine was denied its own Marinewaffe by
Goering. Imagine navalized Messers and Fockes and completely new
designs by Dornier, Arado, and Heinkel which had flying boats and
floatplanes... possibly even jet designs by 1945.

US and Britain had the best naval fighters IMHO, with Japan coming in
third. I think Italy was negligiable.

Rob- Hide quoted text -

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Hmmm I would put Japan ahead of Britain, the FAA had 4 half decent
fighters the
Sea Hurricane - robust and available but outclassed by the ned of the
war,
Seafire - fine in the air but short legged for the Pacific and very
poor deck handling
Fulmar - worked ok in the Med for a while but outclassed (ISTR most
FAA victories in Europe were courtesy of the Fulmar)
Firefly - a fine strike fighter but not an air superiority fighter.
The Sea Fury was excellent but too late for the war

Any info on ***French*** carrier aviation prior to their defeat?

Guy- Hide quoted text -

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The French were to use the aircraft carrier Bearn which was used to
transport US aircraft for Belgium when the Armistice was signed. She
was kept in the Antilles until liberation, but was too obsolete by
then to be used as an a/c carrier.

Her 1940 a/c complement would have been 35-40 and would have been
composed of the Loire-Nieuport 401/411, the Vought V.156F, and a few
Curtiss SBC-4 Helldivers.

Immediately after the war, Arsenal came up with the VB.10:http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fww2/vb10/vb10-2.jpg

Evolved by Ingenieur-General Vernisse and M Badie, the VB 10 was an
all-metal single-seat fighter powered by engines mounted in tandem
fore and aft of the pilot's cockpit and driving contra-rotating co-
axial propellers. Thirty VG 10s were ordered off the drawing board in
May 1940, and work continued under the Vichy government. The first
prototype with two 860hp Hispano- Suiza 12Y31 12-cylinder liquid-
cooled engines was flown on 7 July 1945. The second prototype with
1150hp HS 12Z12/13 engines and an armament of four 20mm Hispano-Suiza
cannon and six 12.7mm Browning machine guns flew on 21 September 1946.
A contract for 200 aircraft had been placed on 22 December 1945 (this
later being cut back to 50 aircraft), and the first production VB 10
flew on 3 November 1947 with 1150hp HS 12Z Ars 15/16 engines and an
armament of four 20mm cannon. Production was cancelled on 21 September
1948 after completion and testing of four series aircraft.

Rob- Hide quoted text -

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Thanks Rob, with that 1940 complement I dont think Bearn would worry
many people, you would probably have to use the Helldivers as
interceptors;-)

Guy
.

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