Re: Utility of airpower between comparable opponents

On Mar 8, 3:52�pm, deemsb...@xxxxxxx wrote:
On Mar 8, 6:02 pm, "Rob Arndt" <teuton...@xxxxxxx> wrote:





On Mar 8, 2:23?pm, Ed Rasimus <rasimusSPAML...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 22:05:17 GMT, Herbert Viola <n...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

In article <i3fuu2dk5rnk7otdvjuvojjgcomp00g...@xxxxxxx>,
Ed Rasimus <rasimusSPAML...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Airpower will be essential to any ground campaign and even more
critical if the battle is between near equals.

A judgement has to be made as to how effective air defenses will be against near
equals. My opinion is that between near equals air defenses behind static lines
will be effective enough to prevent the enemy air force from making important
contributions through interdiction, etc. Look at the Iran-Iraq war, neither side
was able to do much within enemy airspace. The big problem here is that airpower
is fairly new, rapidly evolving, and there are few examples of air power
conflicts between near equals in technological terms outside of WW2.

That raises an interesting discussion. The Soviet Union and clients
invested quite heavily in layered air defense systems. The US and
allies have generally minimized air defenses with only small (but
fairly sophisticated) point defense systems.

In all of the conflicts since Vietnam, the enemy air defenses have
been largely ineffective in denying air superiority to the US and our
clients. Each generation of SAMs seems to be potentially the
break-through weapon that will handle attacks, but ever since SA-2
we've managed to counter and overcome the new missiles.

My suspicion is that air defenses will become increasingly irrelevant
in terms of denial of the airspace to attackers.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
?www.thunderchief.org
?www.thundertales.blogspot.com

I wonder if that still holds up as the Russians have both anti-stealth
radar and interlinked anti-stealth missile systems in additioned to a
heavily layered air defense system?

Also, factor in that in most airpower engagements in the past US
Carrier Battle Groups contributed hundreds of a/c offshore. No
opponent was firing nuke-tipped cruise missiles at them. But Russia
and China certainly can and WOULD in a violent conflict. China has
already threatened the US with nuking our carriers if we interfere
with Taiwan. In such a conflict we probably would have at least 2
carriers in the Straight and a loss by nuke would be catastrophic:
10,000 lives lost plus almost 200 a/c in a flash. Those good old days
of guaranteed airpower are over both for Israel and the US.

    Guaranteed? Is that a cash-back guarantee?

 Iraq and

Lebanon should have sent that message- airpower nullified in both
conflicts.

     How has air power been nullified?

It doesn't accomplish its objectives and count how many helos,
especially Apaches, have been downed by simple analysis of flight
plans and small arms fire co-orination plus RPGs? The Apache is
supposed to be the best attack helicopter in the world able to
withstand full battlefield combat against nations like Russia.
Instead, it is a sitting duck for primitive terrorists using simple
tactics and 60 yr old weapons (which were based on Third Reich
weapons).

Israel pounder Lebanon everyday and could not stop Hezbollah from
launching 3,000 missiles into Israel. Neither did they get their
soldiers back nor advance North into deeper Lebanon. Airpower failed
completely.

The US aircraft in Iraq can do nothing to stop the attacks against US
soldiers.

In the old days at least if you couldn't take the country you could at
least bomb them to the bargaining table. Doesn't work with 21st
century terrorists and asymmetrical warfare can never be truly
destroyed.

After almost 5 yrs in Iraq and 7 in Afghanistan when you USA-Number-
One types ever learn? The US is in decline. Wait till all the baby
boomers retire en mass and destroy Social Security. There won't be
enough workers to sustain economic growth, healthcare, and fill in the
gaps militarily. The defense budgets will either rapidly decline or
the deficit will break us. Conscription is taboo and you can bet that
the Dems will make sure we will be weakened to a position of regional
power only.

Wake up. Airpower isn't going to save us in the next major conflict,
especially with fighters and bombers from the 1950s-80s. BTW, try to
establish air superiority over the entire nation of Russia or China.
Can't be done- geographically impossible with nations of that size
with people that will fight back with modern weapons and in China's
case have 1.3 billion population. You could nuke 1 billion of them and
their population would still be greater than the US.

Rob

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