Re: He274/He277
- From: "Eunometic" <eunometic@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: 13 Sep 2006 07:37:35 -0700
Keith Willshaw wrote:
"Eunometic" <eunometic@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1158063140.094444.8050@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
guy wrote:
I know the history of the two types, but how much commonality was there
between them?
The He 277 was an He177 modded to carry four engines, The He274 was
designed from the start for 4 engines, based around the He177
was much interchangeable?
guy
They seem to have derived from the same He 177,
The He 277 (also known as the He 177B) was a 4 engined He 177; it was
'engineered' in Heinkels Vienna works. It used conventionaly
supercharged engines and was pressurised. It was not supported by the
RLM and was somewhat of a hidden private project but when it was
finally supported was they demanded immediate production. Production
was cancelled on Jult 4th; along with a lot of other projects
presumably due to the allied landings. The aircraft was flown and have
very positive evaluations and very good performance: speed
It was impressive aircraft with a speed of 354mph and range of between
3700 and 4300 miles, it was pressurised and heavily armed with remote
controled turrets; in every way comparable to the B-29.
Hardly
The B-29 could carry a 20,000 lb bomb load and had a combat radius
of over 3000 miles
No.
The B-29 had a ferry range of 5600m which is rounded up to 6000 miles.
The practical opperational radious with 5000lbs of bombs was around
1800 miles.
http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_us/b029-03.html
The He-177/277 could carry up to 12,000 lb and had a combat radius
of 1000 miles
The He 277 was a vastly modified from the He 177:heavier, faster, more
armament, bigger bomb bay.
The He 277B-5 had a speed of 358mph and a range of just over 6000km
3750miles.
The He 277B-6 had a slightly higher speed and a range of about
4500miles. It was the maritime reconiseance version and used Jumo 213F
engines.
Even the shorter ranged He 177A-5 had a range of 3105 miles WITH and
external Hs 293 missile. The He 277B-5 had greater range again.
In reality the radious of the He 277B-5 bomber would be somewhat more
than 1500miles with about 2000kg of internal bombs.
It was comparable with the Lancaster/Halifax/B-17 generation
The He 177 was superior to not only the Lancaster/B-17 but the Avro
shakelton as well. Its had a range of 3105 miles WITH an external Hs
293 anti shipping missile. Much more than the Lancaster or B-17. It
was also much faster at 358mph as opposed to around 285 for the B-17and
Lanc.
The He 277 was another class above the He 177 and unlike the Lincoln
was actually pressurised.
of western bombers in terms of performance but rather less reliable.
The B-29 was extremly unreliable and vast numbers burned out and
crashed due to the propensity of its engines to catch fire and destroy
the main wing spar. Uhdersized crowded cowlings were part of the
problem (just like on the He 177)
The He 177 never had the time to prove itself. The problem does not
seem to have been the aircraft itself though by the A5 vaiant most of
the problems had been solved.
Now, I don't want somebody to believe that He-177 service was trouble
free. The problems that He-177 had in service were many and severe,
however they were not caused by mechanical failures. Instead LW own
inability to service and use in effective manner this complex aircraft
caused most of the difficulties. Here's a quote from 'Heinkel 177, 277
274' by Manfred Griehel and Joachim Dressel, ISBN 1 85310 364 0,
containing a German wartime report on He-177 which perfectly summarizes
how the LW failed to exploit the qualities of this advanced aircraft.
Quote:
In May 1944 Major Schubert of the Luftwaffengeneralstab and
Reichsmarschall Goring's Adjutancy was finally appointed to establish
the principal reasons for the delays experienced in re- equipping
Luftwaffe bomber units with the He 177. Nothing needs to be added to
his report:
Most of the aircrew of units selected for re- equipment with the He 177
were operationally 'tired-out' and relatively few were from front-line
units. The necessary personnel consisted primarily of Young, often
inexperienced aircrews, and for reasons of capacity their conversion
training at operational training and replacement Gruppen could only be
completed in relatively few cases. Most of the young pilots had only
nine to 12 months of practical flying experience prior to being
transferred to such a complicated aircraft as the He 177.
Apart from that, the new operational crews had been trained on the Ju
88, and most had hardly any training in the art of night-flying. The
necessary conversion training meant the compulsory withdrawal of
operational He 177s for use as trainers, which in turn led to an
overload of work for the technical personnel due to the numerous
instances of damage suffered by these aircraft as a result of the
training activities.
Matters were made all the more difficult by the fact that some of the
ground personnel had not been pre-instructed on the He 177. In
addition, the vast majority of the technical personnel arrived at their
He 177-equipped bomber Gruppen several months after the units had first
received their re- equipment orders. By spring 1944, some units were
still short of about 50 per cent of engine fitters. Some of the other
personnel first set eyes on the He 177 upon arrival at their assigned
unit's airfield, their instruction and training on the Heinkel bomber
having to start there and then.
The supply of aircraft servicing tools and appliances also did not keep
up with deliveries of He 177s. Thus, for instance, the wing attachment
cranes needed to facilitate powerplant changes arrived several months
after the delivery of the aircraft themselves, and even then they were
too few in number. For IV/KG 1 there was no specialised engine-changing
equipment at all, and for this reason the unit had to suspend all
training activities in mid-April 1944.
The 'engine circulation' (service units - repair depots - service
units) also did not flow as it should have done at first, because of a
lack of transportation. Neither the supply of new engines nor the
return of DB 606/610s in need of repair functioned properly, least of
all the supply of exchange powerplants to individual airfields. It
wasn't until April 1944 that these shortcomings were effectively
overcome, but they were never fully eradicated.
According to Major Schubert, the time expenditure required for the
maintenance and servicing of the He 177 was incomparable with that of
any other operational aircraft in service with the Luftwaffe. The
jacking-up operation to change the main undercarriage tyres alone
(which had to done at least twice as frequently as on other aircraft
types) lasted some 2fi hours using the prescribed mechanical spindle
blocks. Yet by early summer 1944 far too few of these 12-ton spindle
blocks recommended by the manufacturer were available to He
177-equipped units.
The layout of the powerplants too did not exactly help attempts to
carry out the necessary servicing work. Because of the inaccessibility
of the coupled engines their dismounting took considerably longer than
similar work on, for example, the Ju 88 or He 111. Due to the low
training level of the technicians, a 25-hour control check on the He
177 usually took two, sometimes even three days.
Criticism was also made of the airfields selected to receive the He
177. Apart from Aalborg in Denmark, all of the others were already
completely overcrowded, and lacked the potential for dispersal,
camouflage and suitable protection of their aircraft against bomb
splinters and shrapnel. For this reason low-level attacks by Allied
aircraft caused great losses amongst the He 177s parked out in the open
from 1944 onwards, especially as the airfields were now constantly
within the range of both fighters and bombers. To make matters worse,
this vulnerability to attack had a knock-on effect on He 177 training
activities, which sometimes had to be reduced by up to per cent because
enemy aircraft were on their way and air raid warnings came into force.
No consideration had been given to the fact that the technically
complex He 177 required sufficient hangar space for maintenance and
repair purposes, especially during the winter months. The delays caused
by this shortcoming alone may well have been responsible for the
postponement of He 177 operations by some six months to a year.
Keith
.
- References:
- He274/He277
- From: guy
- Re: He274/He277
- From: Eunometic
- Re: He274/He277
- From: Keith Willshaw
- He274/He277
- Prev by Date: Re: He274/He277
- Next by Date: Re: Not just the Germans...
- Previous by thread: Re: He274/He277
- Next by thread: Re: He274/He277
- Index(es):
Relevant Pages
|
