Re: Sir Frank Whittle


bbrought wrote:
> Cub Driver wrote:
> > The consensus is that von Ohain never saw the patent, and not even
> > Whittle claimed that the German embassy scarfed up copies of the
> > patent.
> >
> > For one thing, von Ohain's engine was totally different than
> > Whittle's. For another, it worked better and earlier.
> >
>
> I am not so sure about your claim that von Ohain never saw the patent,
> or that his engine worked earlier.

von Ohain's engine ran one month earlier in March 1937.

Prior to that he and Max Hahn (von Ohains became partners with his
mechanic) had a so called 'garage' demonstration engine running that
required supplementary power from an electric motor. They took this to
Ernest Heinkel who hired both and they began developing with full
resources.

At some point in the process of developing their engine and patenting
their own
devixes they came across other patents; notably by Lysholm and Whittle.
By this time Hahn already had his own patent and they were in full
fledged
development at Heinkel.

Heinkels patent differed in the type of crompressor, turbine and
combustion chamber used.


On the other hand, I admit I haven't
> personally dug into the archive material. What I can offer is something
> I ran into the other day. It is from a report of the Society of
> Experimental Test Pilots, from the 20th SETP Symposium Proceedings,
> September 22-25, 1976. Apparently at this symposium Sir Frank Whittle
> gave a luncheon address. From this address:
>
> "As you all know, the Germans were almost in step with us. In some
> ways, they were a bit ahead; in other ways, they were a bit behind.
> Hans von Ohain, whom I know quite well, was the first German engineer
> to build a jet engine. He has told me that he found my patents were a
> damn nuisance. We had our first engine on the bench in April, as I told
> you. He had their first engine on the bench in September of 1937.


von Ohain and Max Hahn had their engine running fully under their own
power
in March 1937 one month before Whittles engine in April 1937. Their
engine ran of hydrogen.

The Heinkel engine ran smoothly and perfectly first time in March 1937.

It wasn't however untill September 1937 that the German's engine ran
of
Gasoline and the hydocarbon burners weren't perfected for a few months
after that. The talented machinist and auto-meachanic Max Hahn ended
up with more patents than von Ohain on jet engines. Notably von Ohain
and Hahn ran their 'garage' engine in 1935 but it needed supplementary
power.

von Ohain and the Heinkel team eventually did come across patents from
many including A Lysholm of Sweden as well as other gas turbine
pioneers.
Patent seaches are a normal part of patenting your own inventions






It
> was almost like fruit ripening on a tree all at the same time. But, the
> Germans didn't follow up either on his engine or on the Heinkel 178 the
> he flew it in. They turned instead to the axial-flow-type engine which
> you see here in the Me-262 which went into production just about the
> time the Meteor was going into production.

Quite independently from Heinkel and von Ohain engineers at BMW and
Junkers had their own ideas on increasing jet thrust from exhausts that
eventually led them to conclude that jet propulsion was the way to go.

The whole thing was pushed by the Lutwaffe technocrat Helmuth Schelp.

Schelp wanted axial compressors so that the engines could either be
suspended from the wing or burried within it. The big diameter engines
of the meteor required curved spars and delayed the aircraft a great
deal.

Axial engine require powefull test stands to match turbine to
compressor.
Ironically all of britians jet engines were refined on german test
stands.





They flew first - the He-178
> flew before the E-28 -- but we had an engine on the bench first. So,
> it's very hard to say -- the argument goes on an on -- who was first?
> One thing we can claim is that the engine in the E-28, and the E-28
> itself, were part of a continuous flow of progress whereas the Heinkel
> and Hans von Ohain's project stopped and they switched to the axial
> flow Me-262."
>
> He also made a very interesting comment on the patents at the beginning
> of his address:
>
> "This is the patent drawing -- the first patent. It doesn't look much
> like the jet engines as they later became. To some extent that was
> deliberate. The Ministry didn't want to put it on the secret list. They
> thought I was too stupid to know that a gas turbine wouldn't work. So,
> our problem was to satisfy the patent office, and not give too much
> away. That explains some of the features of that drawing"
>
> Anyway, that still doesn't settle it but it still makes for interesting
> reading.

.

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