Re: High Cost of Sportplanes

Answering Kyle and karel,
First karel,...Well McDonnell Douglas is no more as we all know, I left there in 1991, as for Gulfstream that was in 1997. I contracted at Learjet through 98 and their workers salary was right there in the margain I said. ( me being a contractor I made more, alot more) Also contracted at Raytheon late 90's and their workers pay was right in there as well. You are correct in saying pay in a certain part of the nation...but surprisingly the highest pay is not where you would expect it! The midwest paid as well or better than the LA area where things costed alot more. Even the contracts paid better.
Kyle. As for the 45 argument...well you are not housing your employees you are housing your product. That does not count as a labor cost, but just doing biz ! You have to have a place to build your airplane! I've worked on as many planes in the snow and 120 degree heat as I have in a production hangar...which by the way Gulfstream rocked in that department. Air conditioned! WOO HOO A blessing in south Georgia in the summer. Gulfstream and Midwest Airlines (which was not production work) were the only places I worked that had AC.
I don't pay to have my car worked on. I buy what I need and I fix it ;) Been doing that since I was 14. Actually worked at a shop in Augusta GA rebuilding starters and alternators when I was in school. You are missing a big difference..a production worker is not a mechanic. Aircraft production workers are not aircraft mechanics. There are a some like myself that did or do both. Gulfstream A&P's make very good money and more than the production worker. See how that goes?
Supervision is definitely a part of labor, but when you have maybe a crew of 15-20 workers you should not need but one lead. You'd really have to be getting bigggg to need several layers of supervision, and really the less supervision you have to have the better. Supervisors, other than working leads, are dead weight to production.
The person opening the biz needs to be the head honcho in start up. And we are talking start up costs not 5 or 10 years from start up. A successful biz can expand as it sees fit....but you have to watch that outgoing money very closely during start up or you will not get started.
And Kyle, EVERYBODY knows when you take a vehicle to a dealer you just request the lube you want them to use first! ;) HAHAHA

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:k8GdnS8o9MXdMrDeRVn-1w@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

"W P Dixon" <paddydix1spam1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:fNgXe.5$kk2.1861664@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Well,
Considering most production aircraft workers make from 10 to 15 bucks an hour I don't see how you come up with 45 an hour. That makes a difference to doesn't it ? ;) I loved working production but you just made alot more contracting,...so that's what I ending up doing. I made a whopping 12 an hour building Gulfstream's, and as a team leader for McDonnell-Douglas I made 17.65 an hour...most of my workers at McDonnell-Douglas made 9.99 an hour to start. But they ranged in pay from 9.99 to around 15.00, according to their experience and years at the company. Yes at McDonnell-Douglas we had some great benefits....but a company just starting out will not be able to deliver these until it is making money. And well it pretty much ended up sealing Douglas's fate .

$45 an hour is probably a realistic cost once you consider that it costs money to put a building over the worker's head, pay for lights, pay for tools, pay for supervision, pay to heat/cool the building, etc. For reference, what shop rate do you pay when someone works on your car? Here in the Atlanta 'burbs, I pay $60 or so (IIRC) at the local Honda Dealer. The independant guy charges about $50/hr. I'd say both of these are comparable rates to the $45/hr mentioned for labor in the previous post.

KB


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    ... Considering most production aircraft workers make from 10 to 15 bucks an hour I don't see how you come up with 45 an hour. ... money to put a building over the worker's head, pay for lights, pay for tools, pay for supervision, pay to heat/cool the building, etc. ... If you want _good_ workers, they'll deserve benefits. ...
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