Re: OT the crime and punishment thread

On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 20:59:49 -0500, Berf <berf@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

AC <xxx@xxxxxxx> wrote:

<brafield@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:47d34ada-d79c-4a7d-80b9-a6d1f9357a37@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I wish I could put my finger on a couple of Charles Dickens's comments
about crime, but one, roughly, skewers the well-fed judges who
indignantly expounded on their "moral duty" and "social
responsibility" to jail some juvenile delinquent:
Dickens said "Where was your moral duty and your famous social
responsibility when this criminal was an ignorant battered child and
its parents knew nothing of love? Why did you wait until you could
enjoy the pleasure of condemning the predictable wretch that child was
to become?"

My daughter worked with kids whose every day could be their last,
homeless, addicted, prostituted, beaten --- in an exhausting campaign
to patch up some of the damage and encourage them to feel like worthy
people --- and what she did on a modest non-professional wage probably
saved an unappreciative nation millions and millions in the future.
But (as Dickens bitterly knew) the nation's establishment would
actually RATHER spend the millions on policing and punishment, because
that gets votes, gives judges a hard-on, and makes an uptight
citizenry feel smug. Spending money on earl intervention provides no
spectacle, no photo ops, no fun --- it just saves lives, usually the
kind of lives most of us don't give a *** about.

I am convinced that every teacher and every neighbour in every street
can today point to half a dozen kids and say with sad certainty: "That
poor little bugger is gonna be a thief or a killer one day," yet not
one of us can point to a real guaranteed source of help and say "But
it's okay, we'll take care of it."

Dickens, commenting on the horrors of the French Revolution, (again I
wish I could find the quote right now) said "This was always going to
come about; as certainly as there was a tree slowly growing in an
aristocrat's estate somewhere, that would one day become the planks of
which the guillotine is built."

In Vancouver, Canada last week, a 13-year-old was arrested for
slashing a transit passenger; he had been picked up by the police 75
times in the previous 12 months. That the kid wasn't me, and wasn't
you, but where were you and I and the system we voted for, over the
last 13 years, with our indignant cries of 'duty' and 'responsibility'
when this creature was growing into what he became ---- why didn't we
stop it?


*** happens.

Honestly. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. We can legislate, police,
prosecute, jail, even torture and execute.

But in the end, *** happens. And believe me, it always will.

AC



A crazy 47 year-old pushed three teenagers in front of a subway in Toronto
on Friday, one of them held his balance and didn't fall, the 13 year-old
and the 14 year-old fell on the tracks, facing an incoming train.

The 13 year-old pulled the 14 year-old under the train, saving his life.

The 14 year-old ended up with a crushed foot.


Bystanders and a transit worker tackled the crazy 47 year-old and held him
for the police.

Everyone with a brain knows that the guy who did it was immensely fucked up
in the head.

The Toronto subway system is a popular suicide route too. 2 a month, so
they say. My local one has had 3 in the last 9 months.

However, last month when a guy was shot in the subway (he survived), the
Mayor called for more policing on the subways and made illegal guns the
issue.

That's probably because raising Hell about gun play on the subway is an
easy target, while dealing with 47 year-old crazy fucks and suicidal people
is harder to fight.

Plus it is much easier to promise something which, even if vaguely, is
possible. :)

We can't control society, because we don't know who is going to go the
right way or wrong way. Social situations play a big role, but they
are not a deciding factor. Bad people emerge from all layers of
society and good kids can become bad adults.

However, once a kid is identified as a potential problem, that is when
we should take note and try to steer him/her the right way.
We don't, it costs too much, not enough resources, not enough time.
Often we rather just pass the buck and/or blame it on other issues.
Meanwhile the kid keeps falling and can become a fully pledged
criminal, all too late to do anything about.

Sadly while we can spend many hundreds of millions on rubbish, we
simply can't afford a half workable solution for this. Most of the
mentionable youth centers here are ran by individuals, who dedicate
their lives to it and do achieve some success, because they connect
with them. Govt institutions on the other hand are basically jails and
ran as such.

I disagree with Doc. Jail terms are required as a deterrent and in
most cases as a just punishment. We do have to think of both the
criminal and the victim and the victim will want to see the culprit
punished. And rightly so.
The problem is not with the jail time, the problem is that they get
next to no counselling. Some may see the shrink once a week. Once.
That leaves them learning from the other inmates for 6 days. Not good
enough.

Youth detention centers have daily sessions, but it's like a high
school with bars. The main thing for the center is that the student
attends, sits through the class, but there isn't much in the way of
proper psychological assessment. Kid does his time and leaves.
One of my friends was teaching at our main one and she was there with
a 2 year teaching experience. Bollocks. She knew herself, that she
wasn't up for that task.
It's a bit like holding up your front wall with bearers from the
inside. It looks good form the outside, but it is structurally
unsound. Good enough for the masses, becasue they only see it from
outside..

The solution is a *** load of money and enticing professionals and
business to partake. Most bad kids will get a true kick out of making
an honest living, they just need to be put in a solid position both
mentally and especially in practice to do that. And that is hard.
While a good shrink can do a lot, business in general does not want to
play along and take risks, like employing people with records..
Catch 22. Kid loses all hope and returns to the streets.

--

Regards, Frank
.

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