Re: McLaren - since Ferrari is guilty, if follows we are innocnet?

Lenny wrote:
On Aug 2, 1:36 pm, Phil Newnham <pnewn...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

No, because you'd be sued by your employer for breach of contract. But
if you communicated a secret idea to me over the phone, that would be
your choice, and I would not be guilty of anything, even if I didn't
report your breach of contract, AIUI. I would also not be infringing
your IP if I also communicated your idea to someone else - by telling me
about it, you have put it in the public domain, again AIUI, which means
that since I don't have a contract with you to keep it secret, I can
tell anyone I choose.

In the US and other countries, we have a fifth element of protection.
It is the trade secret. We even have a bad law (EEA) to enforce it
nationally and somewhat internationally. Now since you are in England
where it does not apply, I could call you and tell you a secret
process we use for making pistons and only I would suffer. But if you
were in the US for that call, you would be culpable.

IANA lawyer but I don't believe we have a trade secrets act here. So, if I came to America and you volunteered a trade secret, without me knowing that it was protected or asking you to do so, I would be in trouble? Has that actually been tested in court against your constitution? What is a "bad law"?

Anything you write down is copyright. Any drawing is copyright. You
don't have to show it to me to make it protected copyrighted material.
The idea you had is not copyright. That's why you keep it a secret,
that's why you make people sign non-disclosure agreements before telling
them your idea. If you don't, if you walk into a meeting with a
prospective client and tell them exactly how your system works, and they
say "thanks! bye..." and go and do the exact same thing themselves, you
can do nothing, unless you made them sign an NDA.

Is anything that is written copyright? Software is all copyright,
naturally. Music and books are copyrighted, mainly because they are
written works. How about these discussions?

I'm not sure about Usenet. Because the nature of the medium is that the message is copied over and over and over by being propagated across all the servers that carry the group, it could be that permission to copy the message is implied by its being posted. But if we were having this discussion on a webpage based forum, we would own the copyright in our contributions unless the webpage made us sign it away when we created our accounts.

How about a secret process in an internal document in a production
facility? I have it on good authority that secret processes (trade
secrets) can not hold a copyright, even if they are written, because
they are not an expression of the idea, they are closer to the
idea...or some such legal nonsense.

IIRC, the process itself is not copyrightable, because it is an idea. If I wrote a description of the process, my description would be copyright, because I wrote it, and therefore you would not be free to make copies of my description. However, you could read the copy I gave you, or one that was made with my permission, and then copy the process, unless I hold a patent on the process.

Company secrets on the other hand are company secrets - they are
protected by non-disclosure agreements. Coughlan hasn't broken any NDA,
because he hasn't signed an NDA with Ferrari. Stepney, however, is
accused of doing exactly that.
Again, in my country these are considered as IP and if not, copyright
infringement would cover this.
Well, I have studied a little bit of IP law, and this is my
understanding - if you wish to protect an idea, you have two options.
You either keep it secret and protect it through contracts with all
individuals who are allowed to know about it, like the work I'm
currently doing, or you patent it, which means everyone knows but no one
can copy it. In point of fact, no one should know about it until the
patent agreement is filed anyway, because if it's public knowledge you
can't patent it.

Well, that is how I too understand it, but with a slight national
difference. The actual divides between all these types of protection
can be blurred to the point of distraction. I have to go sit in
meetings with "interesting" lawyers once a year and go over these
details and be told of new developments, but since our stuff is so
boring and predictable, we hardly ever have anyone try to take our
ideas ;-)

I'm sure I will one day end up in the same boat. Most of the companies I would want to work for in the future seem to work along the lines of "patent everything".

--
Phil

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tmc1979/
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: McLaren - since Ferrari is guilty, if follows we are innocnet?
    ... communicating the design of the floor is IP leakage, ... But if you communicated a secret idea to me over the phone, that would be your choice, and I would not be guilty of anything, even if I didn't report your breach of contract, AIUI. ... if I patent it, and if I patent it I have to put the idea in writing in ... You either keep it secret and protect it through contracts with all individuals who are allowed to know about it, like the work I'm currently doing, or you patent it, which means everyone knows but no one can copy it. ...
    (rec.autos.sport.f1)
  • Re: Protecting netlist for Xilinx
    ... Using multiple IP from multiple vendors, and all getting paid is yet a third problem. ... The use of physically unique coding function would allow each device to uniquely be matched to a bitstream, but this requires each bitstream to be unique for that part. ... Obfuscation (keeping a secret by keeping secrets) should never be considered secure, as paying someone in the parking lot is all it takes to crack it. ... fully protect them, but that doesn't mean it doesn't worth trying. ...
    (comp.arch.fpga)
  • Re: Democracy, Hare-Clark style. Try this in Iraq!
    ... they secretly (by secret ballot) designate some one ... protect him, and that he wants none of our protection, say to him ... If you want to benefit from the rights and protections of the social contract then you must also accept all the responsibilities and obligations it entails. ...
    (rec.arts.sf.fandom)
  • Re: OT Re: Cherokee Nation Posts Open Source Legisation
    ... >> they protect the trade secret within, but such code is not open source. ...
    (Linux-Kernel)
  • Re: OOTP
    ... knowing the SECRET of where they are hidden. ... Even knowing they're hiding out at the house, he can't see them, because ... Note that this is how Harry was shown the headquarters of the OOTP by someone OTHER than Dumbledore. ... The fiedlius charm must protect a secret. ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)