Re: Mad Max is at it again


"Graham Hodgson" <ttgmh@xxxxxxxxxxx> skrev i melding
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Jago wrote:
"Graham Hodgson" <ttgmh@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Jago wrote:
"Graham Hodgson" <ttgmh@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Not_So_Prefect_Being wrote:
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 22:37:13 +0100, Graham Hodgson
<ttgmh@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Jago wrote:
"Paul Harman" <chatterbox@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"Jago" <jago@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Arguably the only team close to privateer status left, ironically
enough, is Ferrari.
There's a Mr Williams over here who wishes to raise an objection.

Paul

Ferrari builds their own chassis and engines. Williams doesn't.
Williams is in partnership, as opposed to just engine supplier,
with Cosworth, assisted by Ford, that designs and builds more than
just engines for Williams. Drive train, electronics, etc. A
Williams-Cosworth effort. Ferrari's F1 campaign, while majority
owned by FIAT, is Ferrari designed and built.
A few points:
* I thought Williams designed their own gearbox this year.
Yes, using a few Cosworth facilities to test it. Continous torque or
something. I posted about it before the season started but no-one
seemed interested.
It's about design not supply?

* Don't Ferrari use MM electronics?
It's about design not supply.
Yeah, MM design their electronics.

* AFAIK Ford have no involvement with Cosworth or Williams
No more. In the past it was money.
Indeed. But the current F1 engine is not backed by Ford money, as was
suggested by Jago .

--
Graham

Make a little birdhouse in your soul...


I didn't specifically say that Cosworth was backed by Ford. Cosworth
isn't any longer. I said assisted in the sense that Ford was the
financier of Cosworth for decades and half the reason for Cosworth
existing today. IOW, Cosworth wouldn't be around without the
assistance of previous Ford financing.
And would Ferrari be around without FIAT financing?

--
Graham

Make a little birdhouse in your soul...


I really don't know. Ferrari was founded and thrived long before FIAT
first bought in. If I recollect correctly, Ferrari went through a bad
period from the mid-1950s to the mid- to late-1960s, with internal
company squabbles and drop in buyer demand for their road cars.
Cosworth, OTOH, was Ford right from the beginning, and backed by Ford,
until just recently. The first Cosworth engine was a modified Ford
engine for a junior formulae. The facts are that the revenues from
Ferrari to FIAT are a pittance of FIAT's total annual earnings, and
Ferrari is totally independently run from FIAT. As to whether FIAT saved
Ferrari, I have no idea. Other than, I doubt they did, but I don't have
the financial info to back this up.

I thought Cosworth was set up separately from Ford by Mike and Keith?

Of course it was. The result was a number of successfull racing engines,
based on Ford cylinder blocks, ranging from the MAE through the FV series
and onto the first F1 motor, the DFV, for which Ford stomped up £ 100K in
order to give it a Ford logo on the camcovers. But the DFV was also given
cam covers that said "Cosworth", for those teams sponsored by companies in
competition with Ford. The DFV was exclusively for Ford's favoured team,
Lotus, in 1967 but from 1968 anyone could have them. Williams were sponsored
for some time by Leyland trucks....and its DFVs were Cosworths, not Fords,
for obvious reasons.
Ford's sales pitch in the late Sixties was "Total Performance". Its impact
on motor racing world wide was enormous, with the MAE and derivatives in F3,
the FVA and later BDA in F2, the DFV in F1, the TC and later BDA in
rallying, the Angleboxes, Cortina Lotuses and Escorts dominating saloon cars
(and with the Galaxies, Mustangs and Fairlanes doing well when sheer grunt
was required...) then there were the GT 40s in sports car racing, not to
mention the Galaxies in the Grand National domestic US series....and winning
Indy with the four-cam
version of the initially pushrod US built V8....subsequently going on to do
a turbocharged DFV when turbos became a necessity. Ford had a number of
fingers in just about every important motor racing pie nationally and
internationally for a long time. How they could let their beancounters waste
all that pedigree by selling off Cosworth is really, really beyond me.
Doc

If FIAT didn't help Ferrari why did Ferrari sell up to them?

--
Graham

Make a little birdhouse in your soul...


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Mad Max is at it again
    ... Ferrari builds their own chassis and engines. ... Williams is in partnership, as opposed to just engine supplier, with Cosworth, assisted by Ford, that designs and builds more than just engines for Williams. ...
    (rec.autos.sport.f1)
  • Re: Mad Max is at it again
    ... Ferrari builds their own chassis and engines. ... Williams doesn't. ... Williams is in partnership, as opposed to just engine supplier, ... using a few Cosworth facilities to test it. ...
    (rec.autos.sport.f1)
  • Re: Mad Max is at it again
    ... Ferrari builds their own chassis and engines. ... Williams is in partnership, as opposed to just engine supplier, ... using a few Cosworth facilities to test it. ... But the current F1 engine is not backed by Ford money, ...
    (rec.autos.sport.f1)
  • Re: Mad Max is at it again
    ... There's a Mr Williams over here who wishes to raise an objection. ... Ferrari builds their own chassis and engines. ... using a few Cosworth facilities to test it. ... But the current F1 engine is not backed by Ford money, ...
    (rec.autos.sport.f1)
  • Re: Ford suing Ferrari over F150 name
    ... buy Ferrari. ... time anyone went into deep failure analysis for the engine. ... IIRC Ford ...
    (rec.autos.sport.f1)