Re: 97 SW1 - Synchro bad in manual transmission???


<bogus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Synchro bad in manual transmission???

97 SW1 SOHC 168k 5sp manual transmission.

Original owner.

Bought car from Fargo, ND Saturn dealer in Oct 97 with 65 miles on it.

snip

In August 2004, the (o-ring?) on the transmission shifter cable went
bad. $500 to $600 to remove and replace cable(s) including towing to
independent shop almost 100 miles away.

Do a Google groups search on "shifter clip group:rec.autos.makers.saturn".
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=shifter+clip&as_ugroup=rec.autos.makers.saturn

About two to three weeks after the transmission cables were replaced,
the manual transmission will shift up through all the gears but will not
downshift from third gear to second gear without slowing way down

168k miles or km?
Since you have owned since new, do you engage in 'sprited driving and
shifting?
Did 'spirited shifting' contribute to the shift cable failure?
Do you practice progressive or short shifting tecniques?
What is your normal pre upshift and downshift rpm range?
Do you speed shift or shift without using the clutch?
Do you use high force to pull into next gear or do you shift gently with a
slight pause just after neutral to allow the sycronizers to do their job
gently?
What rpm are you attempting to downshift at?
What rpm do you mean by slowing way down?
Do you allow the rpms to drop too low when downshifting?, this raises the
gear speed delta and increases the work that must be done by the
sycronizers.
Do you use aggressive downshifting to maximize engine braking?

plus double and triple shifting (pumping clutch pedal rapidly).

Double clutching is a technique used to manually sycronize gear speeds when
shifting non-syncromesh (now obsolete and rare) or worn syncromesh
transmissions.

I have never heard of "triple shifting". 'Pumping' a hydraulic clutch is a
technique that (with some systems) can force more fluid into the slave
cylinder and is helpful if the system contains air or if the cluch is
failing to release due to clutch disk wear or linkage adjustment. A cluch
disk that is dragging due to disk or plate problems can make sycronization
more difficult.

Took car back
to independent shop. $400 to pull transmission and $700 to fix whatever
is wrong inside. Shop said they would give me a price break on a clutch
for $200 more. Did not have any work done.

These figures are an estimate or quote?

snip

Still have not fixed the shifting problem. A friend of mine thinks it's
the (synchro)?. Says I can pick up a rebuilt transmission for $650 if I
install it. From looking at the Chilton manual, it looks like it's a
fairly complex procedure, not for amateurs. Another friend cautioned me
about transmissions. Said there was a big difference between transmission
shops and general automotive shops.

I agree, transmission shops can be even bigger crooks, but both should be
avoided as much as possible and carefully watched when unavoidable.

This week I am going to get 3 written estimates from "transmission" shops
to fix the shifting problem. I'm putting aside 2 grand and I hope it's
not much more. The bluebook value is not much more than that. However,
if it keeps me out of car payments to the bank then it's worth much
more to me.

Any "gotchas" I should look out for when getting the written estimates
from the "transmission" shops?

Expect a call to tell you that the shop found unexpected problems that will
raise the repair cost substantially and that you need to come up with a
decision and probably a large cash deposit quickly as your car is tying up a
hoist and they must charge you for shop time because they can't move your
car out of the shop. They may be hoping that you say the car is not worth
fixing and that you will accept a small amount of cash (or the amount owing,
or less) to sell the car. Once they start working on your car, they
effectively own it until their bill is paid in full.

Would I be better off going with a rebuilt
transmission because of the age of the 10 year old car?

Do not expect that a 'rebuilt' transmission is anything like new and in fact
may not be any better that the one you have. Lots (most) rebuilds are
nothing more than a pressure wash (and maybe paint and sometimes seals) and
a guarantee that (maybe) covers the cost of the transmission but not the
installation. When you discover that the unit is NFG you will find that the
seller has disapeared or will not honor any guarantee or it is easier for
you to just sell the car rather than try to find another transmission, (your
old unit will have been taken as an exchange and you will not be able to get
it returned (as it will have been 'rebuilt' and/or sold to someone else).
This is also a common marketing strategy for used engines.

What minimum
certifications should the shop have? Are there any obvious questions that
I should be aware of?

Some of the biggest crooks have the most paperwork. Count your fingers
after shaking hands.

Thanks for your help,

IMHE, the syncro on 2nd gear is usually the first one to wear, especially
when subjected to poor technique or 'spirited' driving style.

Have you changed your transmission oil frequently and more often than mfg.
recommends?

I suggest changing the transmission oil and carefully examining the old oil
by filtering it through a fine (coffee) filter to look (with a magnifying
glass for brass and aluminum and a magnet for iron) for metal flakes and to
check for water or aging oil condition.

If the car is drivable by using lowered shift points and PROPER double
clutching technique, then I would defer any transmission repairs and drive
the car until the clutch dies, at which time a repair decision can be made
and in the mean time will give you a chance to find a reasonably priced
replacement. Opening a modern and especially a high mileage or hard driven
transmission can be a very expensive operation. Use caution when purchasing
any used unit.

IMHO the '96&up SW1-5sp is the best of the S series and is a body offering
great utility, you may wish to find a low mileage good running sedan which
may provide all the cheap parts you will ever need and also have 4 tires (on
rims) and a good battery. If you look carefully you may find one selling
for little more than the value of the tires and battery and I bet you have
some cracked plastic under the front bumper and in the wheel wells.

Good luck, YMMV


.

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