Re: Tegger's new cat

Tegger (invalid@xxxxxxxxxxx) writes:
"Elle" <honda.lioness@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in news:sdyzk.271$PS3.77
@newsfe06.iad:

Coincidentally about three weeks ago my 1991 Honda Civic
(manual tranny) failed the NOx part of my local emissions
test. It failed the NOx by being 2.4% higher than the
allowed limit. From googling, the most likely culprits were:



One more possible culprit: A glitch at the emissions station. This is
why I keep track of our cars' emissions results, so I can spot any
trends.

Both of our vehicles (and a few of acquaintances of mine) have had years
where there was an unaccountable spike in NO, a spike that ended up not
being repeated ever again. My general advice to people in this situation
is to do nothing but book another test at a later date. If it fails the
second test with similar numbers, then you start troubleshooting.

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/91_integra_emissions.html
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/99_tercel_emissions.html
The year the Tercel had its spike, it would actually have failed the
test. The only reason it passed was because, for some odd reason, the
car had been placed into a lighter weight category, which entitled it to
higher permissible emissions. The very next time the numbers were back
to normal, but the car is still in that new lighter weight class..




Mr. Tegger. Check out this calculator at the Province of British
Columbia's emissions testing web site (AirCare). The year of the car,
engine size, and curb weight is entered. It then calculates the CO, NOx,
and HC limits for B.C..

The weight part is a bit sticky. B.C. uses "Curb Weight". The Ontario
DriveClean program uses "ETW" (Estimated Test Weight). The ETW on my
DriveClean printout is like 200 Kg over the curb weight listed in my
manual. As the weight goes up, the limits become stricter in Ontario (and
B.C.).

The surprise that I had was how loose the B.C. limits were for a 1987 car
compared to the Ontario limits. A failing 1987 car in Ontario would pass
in B.C.! B.C. limits (using Ont.'s ETW!) appear to be 50% to 100% higher
for a 1987 car, compared to the limits in Ontario. And the gov. of Ont.
said they were going to be easy on the old cars when they brought in the
Ont. DriveClean Emissions testing at the end of the 1990's.

this is the page

http://www.aircare.ca/index.php?inspinfo-standards.php

The main page is

http://www.aircare.ca

At main page use the "Inspection Info" drop down menu, then select
"Inspection Standards".



<snip>


So was the problem most likely a clogged catalytic
converter? If so, how did it get clogged?




More likely one that had lost much of its surface area (known as
"sintering"). Apparently that's the most common reason cats fail, and
it's due to inadequate ignition maintenance.

A clogged cat is due to ignition maintenance problems as well as leaking
valve guide oil seals (the puff of smoke on startup). But when this
happens you will suffer loss of power and poor mileage in addition to
higher emissions. In other words, you'll be able to visually see the
clogging, and it won't be a slight neckdown either.

One of my sisters once had a Mazda GLC that had a clogged cat. The front
end looked like somebody had poured oily sand into it. It was basically
plugged solid except for a ring around the perimeter of the element. It
was that ring of open pores that allowed the car to idle and run at all
(and poorly).



I can say that,
upon visual inspection, the new cat was much easier to look
through than the old one. But cats are not supposed to get
blocked, right, unless one is using bad gas or is not
maintaining the engine well? Typically web sites on cats say
they last the life of the car So I take this to mean they
will not last forever, but they should last way long. Is 17
years beyond 'way long'?



The "last forever" thing is for OEM cats. Automakers are required by US
law to warrant cats for at least 8 years and 80K miles. Somebody pays
for that reliability, and that's you, in the purchase cost of OEM.

My own OEM cat was still functional after 17 years and 300,000 miles.
That should tell you something right there about why they cost $1100
new.

Aftermarket is not bound to any such warranty, so they can build as
cheaply as they can get away with.



At any rate, I will continue to watch the mileage and see
what happens.

I am not sweating the aftermarket converter. Chatter at
honda-tech.com suggests my cheap-o aftermarket may not last
as long as OEM, but it should be fine. It is easy to
replace. I can buy four aftermarket cats for one OEM cat, so
I think it is worth the gamble.

I will watch for your updates on how your car does when its
emissions are checked, Tegger.


That will be next spring. I usually go in May.

I've had a very knowledgeable mechanic tell me aftermarket cats are
usually good for about two years (which is one smog test, for me). We'll
see.




--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/


.

Relevant Pages

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